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Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

  1. #91
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Poverty is not subjective. It has sociolgical definitions (absolute and relative - look it up in any basic 14 year old's sociology text book). The poverty line is in many countries decided by certain economic measures.
    Poverty not only is subjective, it's also relative, a poor person in the U.S. is infinitely better off than the majority of the world's "middle class". Not having a Cadillac or cable T.V. does not make one poor, and the "poverty level" is such that the U.S. government assigned it's own monetrary level to "poverty wages", once again, what's better, making some money or no money?




    Most unemplyed don't choose unemployment. Many low paid workers would be better off on state benefits yet they choose to work.
    Got numbers?




    If you live in a country where further education isn't free and you're on a poverty wage,, if you have children to bring up, a sick relative to care for, or if you're simply not too bright academically, then not studying in later life is hardly "apathy" - your comment is trite.
    He's right on, there are scholarships for those who want to learn, there are programs to help people streamline their finances, and people of trades who may not be book smart typically make 50-70k a year, well above the "poverty" level. So yes, it does take apathy to remain in poverty.



    And when the robot malfunctions, or can't clean around the hospital bed because there's a cardiac arrest going on, somebody like her will be called in to do the job she was better at anyway.
    Machines don't make mistakes, but they do break, which is why many people have a parts supply and techs on call.............You were saying?




    That is subjective
    Economics aren't subjective, the laws governing the application are.


    It does in your capitalist system, hence its failure.
    You didn't explain to me how it failed yet, especially after I pointed a few things out, do you really want to keep going here without a shred of fact?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #92
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Ok in this fanciful scenario lets force the sputtering supermarket to pay double wages.

    A. They go broke
    B. Now everyone in the area is on the government cheeseline.


    Gee thanks socialism. You really helped.

    Not double wages, decent wages.
    Most supermarkets can afford it. Look at their profits.
    You have been fooled into thinking low wages are essential to the functioning of capitalism. If that is true, then the system has failed.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  3. #93
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    What's to read, .
    I think that's called burying your head in the sand. You ignore what's uncomfortable to you. I'm not really surprised.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
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  4. #94
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Poverty is not subjective. It has sociolgical definitions (absolute and relative - look it up in any basic 14 year old's sociology text book). The poverty line is in many countries decided by certain economic measures.

    Many of the measures you trash indeed have lifted people out of poverty. For example, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK: Minimum wage puts Britain on top to combat worker poverty | Money | The Guardian
    Poverty is subjective, unless you are defining poverty as not being able to provide yourself with food, water and shelter.

    If you can provide all of those things with the wages you are earning, you are not impoverished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Most unemplyed don't choose unemployment. Many low paid workers would be better off on state benefits yet they choose to work.
    Then why entice them to remain stagnant with state benefits?


    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    If you live in a country where further education isn't free and you're on a poverty wage,, if you have children to bring up, a sick relative to care for, or if you're simply not too bright academically, then not studying in later life is hardly "apathy" - your comment is trite.
    A book at the library is free or you could own it if you buy it.

    You don't have to be academically bright to get an education.
    There are plenty of places looking for welders, machinists, mechanics etc.
    All requiring a basic education and on the job training.

    It is apathy, if you whine about being poor but do nothing to get out of it.
    The only person you can blame is yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    And when the robot malfunctions, or can't clean around the hospital bed because there's a cardiac arrest going on, somebody like her will be called in to do the job she was better at anyway.
    Automation is superior to humans because automated machines are consistent with their quality and productivity.

    Humans are not and those no skill fields are slowly being phased out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    That is subjective


    It does in your capitalist system, hence its failure.
    Capitalism is how nature designed things to work.
    It is a dance of cooperative and competitive behaviors in plants, animals, atoms, everything.

    It is a massive failure that everyone misses this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    No that's not a good example. The two countries which consistenly top WHO league tables for their health systems and health care outcomes are two countries with socialised medicine and universal health care (France and Sweden). You happen to be talking to a doctor in a socialised medical system, who like many of her colleagues, doesn't flee to the US or to private practice for mega bucks because she believes in the state system, finds it to be excellent and feels adequately remunerated for what she does. Bad example.
    WHO health care statistics have already been shown to use subjective measurements when deciding which systems have higher overall efficiency of care.
    Not to mention the fact that a lot of the state systems in Europe are moving portions back to the private market.

    You feel adequately paid, others do not. Pay, poverty et all are subjective.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Nice, hadn't thought of that, the musical kind.
    Kinda funny maybe but I was interested in the storage kind.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Not double wages, decent wages.
    By who's definition and what data? Bring something.
    Most supermarkets can afford it. Look at their profits.
    http://www.fmi.org/docs/facts_figs/C...nandProfit.pdf You lose.
    You have been fooled into thinking low wages are essential to the functioning of capitalism. If that is true, then the system has failed.
    You are being completely dishonest here, in fact, no one has said low wages are essential to capitalism, only that anything in which it's outlay exceeds it's value is a bad investment, this includes labor. That you aren't representing the argument correctly tells me you are either not understanding this conversation or are lying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    I think that's called burying your head in the sand. You ignore what's uncomfortable to you. I'm not really surprised.
    HAH! I'm ignoring the irrelevent, you're bringing emotion, economics deal in fact, I'm actually ashamed that I am giving you more attention that your value demands.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Kinda funny maybe but I was interested in the storage kind.
    I'm very investment minded, these days that may be the better idea.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #98
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Poverty not only is subjective, it's also relative, a poor person in the U.S. is infinitely better off than the majority of the world's "middle class". Not having a Cadillac or cable T.V. does not make one poor, and the "poverty level" is such that the U.S. government assigned it's own monetrary level to "poverty wages", once again, what's better, making some money or no money?
    Yes, I already mentioned absolute and relativepoverty.
    You really should read posts before responding to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Got numbers?
    The most obvious study that springs to mind just like that is Perkins' Coventry Study. No I don't have figures to reel off instantly but I do have personal experience of seeing people work who would have been better off on benefits. In my work I have seen peiople's health destroyed by the humiliation that is unemployment. Very few people choose that.
    Do YOU have the numbers to disprove me?


    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    He's right on, there are scholarships for those who want to learn, there are programs to help people streamline their finances, and people of trades who may not be book smart typically make 50-70k a year, well above the "poverty" level. So yes, it does take apathy to remain in poverty.
    The average cleaning lady doesn't get a scholarship just like that, and even if she did, family comittments or low academic ability may prevent her from studying. You speak of a minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Machines don't make mistakes, but they do break, which is why many people have a parts supply and techs on call.............You were saying?
    Anything computerised can be mis-programmed. Your on-call techies couldn't stop that cardiac arrest happening at cleaning time.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Economics aren't subjective, the laws governing the application are.
    Yes, so......

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You didn't explain to me how it failed yet, especially after I pointed a few things out, do you really want to keep going here without a shred of fact?
    It failed because at your own admission, people are condemned to poverty through a choice of charity wages or unemployment. Such a system is in failure in my opinion and yes, that is subjective.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  9. #99
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm very investment minded, these days that may be the better idea.
    I used to play drums about 10 years ago.
    I liked a yellow set of DW's formed out of plastic.

    Are you going to make them wood or other?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #100
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Yes, I already mentioned absolute and relativepoverty.
    You really should read posts before responding to them.
    No, you haven't, you've been rambling on about living wages and poverty, I have not seen one sentence from you making a concrete assertion that the minimum wage needs to be increased because of the absolute line, in fact, if anything the only problem MWer's have here is lack of hours, not the pay rate itself. What's next, telling a company they have to guarantee minimum hours?




    The most obvious study that springs to mind just like that is Perkins' Coventry Study. No I don't have figures to reel off instantly but I do have personal experience of seeing people work who would have been better off on benefits. In my work I have seen peiople's health destroyed by the humiliation that is unemployment. Very few people choose that.
    Do YOU have the numbers to disprove me?
    I can't dispute anything without some kind of data, it doesn't work that way, all I'm getting is emotion. Now, if you want the numbers for economic damage, be careful what you ask for.




    The average cleaning lady doesn't get a scholarship just like that, and even if she did, family comittments or low academic ability may prevent her from studying. You speak of a minority.
    Bad move, the average cleaning lady in my city started a mobile maids company and is now extremely well off, Jani-King is one of the biggest franchises in the United States and it is run by people of all education levels, plenty of people with limited skill sets create their own opportunities by doing what others won't, and guess what, it happens cause they want more for themselves, again, it boils down to what you demand for yourself, not some arbitrary standard of a "minimum lifestyle".



    Anything computerised can be mis-programmed. Your on-call techies couldn't stop that cardiac arrest happening at cleaning time.
    Right, if a computer is mis-programmed a tech is fired and there is a new job created right there, I don't even know where the hell you're going with the second point.




    Yes, so......
    So you would entrust people with no economic knowledge but a desire for cheap votes to determine business interests, rather than the owners themselves who actually know what's going on.


    It failed because at your own admission, people are condemned to poverty through a choice of charity wages or unemployment. Such a system is in failure in my opinion and yes, that is subjective.
    [/QUOTE] You keep repeating "it failed", but can't even explain this......seriously, you couldn't be anymore wrong.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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