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Thread: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Let me see who are a few people in Congress I would not my wildest dreams ever trust with any sensitive information that if released could compromise the safety of Americans over seas or hurt the standing of our Country in the rest of the world? Let's start at the top. Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Di Fi, Harry Reid, or just about anyone in the D column. They seem to have sworn an oath to do everything they can to hurt this Country in any way they can and the only thing they or any of their supporters care about is their party, and to hell with everything else or they wouldn't be bending over backwards to find fault in the past and would be looking to the future to improve things rather than tear them down and impose Socialist ideals in place of American values and ideas that are in line with the Constitution they all have have taken an oath to preserve protect and defend but have all violated in one way or another in action, or in spirit.
    As was said before all we have to go on are the words of a few Dims (no spell error).
    Boy does this post ring true. It is really sad to watch the levels of political dialogue decend to the low levels the Libruls are dragging it.

    But when you represent a political philosophy that cannot stand on its own, be supported by the facts or the historic record and which cannot be defended against other ideas, this is the low life level one is forced to go in order to avoid debating political philosophy but rather, impugn the character of your opponents with innuendo, hyperbole, lies and divisive partisan rhetoric.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.
    I would ask what facts you have to support such obviously absurd comments; but I know that there aren't any.

    The above is an example of the level of absurdity Liberals are willing to stoop in order to avoid any honest intellectual debate about political philosophy and economic policies that make sense. History and FACTS are not kind to Democrats and Liberals.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I would ask what facts you have to support such obviously absurd comments; but I know that there aren't any.

    The above is an example of the level of absurdity Liberals are willing to stoop in order to avoid any honest intellectual debate about political philosophy and economic policies that make sense. History and FACTS are not kind to Democrats and Liberals.
    Well, then allow us to discuss. What was the policies of Rome that led to it's demise? The most obvious is the spreading-out of the military into multiple areas of occupation. This can be compared to the initiation of the Iraq War, while still fighting in Afghanistan, as well as during this same period the call for military strike on Iran by many rightwing hawks. The U.S. still maintains bases in Japan, S. Korea, and even Germany for the love of God. Now, if a conflict arose with a real adversary like China, we would be very vulnerable to attack both militarily and economically.

    We have become engaged in a great trading deficit with China, who buys up more and more of our country by the day, and even politicians liek Obama are stupid enough to continue the borrowing. This thread, for example, you and Councilman, both basically advocated keeping information away from Congress, just as the military of Rome did from the Senate. To take such a world stance, rather than focus on improving our own economy and securing our own borders leads to failure, when the enemy is eating you up on the inside-out, rather than from the outside-in. What we will see is the diminishing of the U.S. prowess on the world stage. Our policies have allowed China to grow to a giant economically, and partnered with Russia in the Shanghai Corporation Organization and ASEAN+3, militarily.

    The U.S. has set it self up for a Roman style fall from grace.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Well, then allow us to discuss. What was the policies of Rome that led to it's demise? The most obvious is the spreading-out of the military into multiple areas of occupation. This can be compared to the initiation of the Iraq War, while still fighting in Afghanistan, as well as during this same period the call for military strike on Iran by many rightwing hawks.
    I see that you have difficulty distinguishing the domination over other countries to the liberation of countries from depots and dictators who threaten their neighbors and establishing self ruling Democracies in those liberated countries.

    If you cannot make such an OBVIOUS and simple distinction, how can anyone take your absurdity serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    The U.S. still maintains bases in Japan, S. Korea, and even Germany for the love of God. Now, if a conflict arose with a real adversary like China, we would be very vulnerable to attack both militarily and economically.
    The US maintains those bases at the invite of those nations, not because it conquered them and dominates them.

    What does being vulnerable to Chinese attack have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    We have become engaged in a great trading deficit with China, who buys up more and more of our country by the day, and even politicians liek Obama are stupid enough to continue the borrowing.
    What does a trade deficit with the Chinese have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?


    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    This thread, for example, you and Councilman, both basically advocated keeping information away from Congress, just as the military of Rome did from the Senate.
    When did either of us advocate keeping information away from Congress? Please post it in your response and highlight the exact statements where this “avocation” occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    To take such a world stance, rather than focus on improving our own economy and securing our own borders leads to failure, when the enemy is eating you up on the inside-out, rather than from the outside-in. What we will see is the diminishing of the U.S. prowess on the world stage. Our policies have allowed China to grow to a giant economically, and partnered with Russia in the Shanghai Corporation Organization and ASEAN+3, militarily.
    What the above have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    The U.S. has set it self up for a Roman style fall from grace.
    Again, nothing you have posted supports the absurd notion that we are like the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never liberated numerous countries and provided them with the means to re-build their economies and develop civilized Democracies.

    P.S. China is still a Communist third world country rife with poverty and pollution and the only reason it has any revenue is the exploitation of it’s citizens poverty like wages and pathetic pollution controls. The notion that China’s economy can even be remotely compared to the US economy is laughable at best.

    Carry on.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Why is it that Conservative hawks have learned nothing from the Roman Empire? If you guys had it your way the U.S. would fall in exactly the same manner as Rome.
    Why haven't the Libbos learned anything from the gargantuous welfare state and taxation that existed in Rome?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why haven't the Libbos learned anything from the gargantuous welfare state and taxation that existed in Rome?
    Why is your answer to every question an evasion?

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I see that you have difficulty distinguishing the domination over other countries to the liberation of countries from depots and dictators who threaten their neighbors and establishing self ruling Democracies in those liberated countries.

    If you cannot make such an OBVIOUS and simple distinction, how can anyone take your absurdity serious?



    The US maintains those bases at the invite of those nations, not because it conquered them and dominates them.

    What does being vulnerable to Chinese attack have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?



    What does a trade deficit with the Chinese have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?




    When did either of us advocate keeping information away from Congress? Please post it in your response and highlight the exact statements where this “avocation” occurred.



    What the above have to do with your original absurd insinuations that we are like the Roman Empire?



    Again, nothing you have posted supports the absurd notion that we are like the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire never liberated numerous countries and provided them with the means to re-build their economies and develop civilized Democracies.

    P.S. China is still a Communist third world country rife with poverty and pollution and the only reason it has any revenue is the exploitation of it’s citizens poverty like wages and pathetic pollution controls. The notion that China’s economy can even be remotely compared to the US economy is laughable at best.

    Carry on.

    Arnold J. Toynbee and James Burke
    In contrast with the "declining empire" theories, historians such as Arnold J. Toynbee and James Burke argue that the Roman Empire itself was a rotten system from its inception, and that the entire Imperial era was one of steady decay of institutions founded in Republican times. In their view, the Empire could never have lasted without radical reforms that no Emperor could implement. The Romans had no budgetary system and thus wasted whatever resources they had available. The economy of the Empire was basically a Raubwirtschaft or plunder economy based on looting existing resources rather than producing anything new.
    This seems much similar to our "interests" in the Middle East. "Drill baby drill!" If you will.

    The Empire relied on booty from conquered territories (this source of revenue ending, of course, with the end of Roman territorial expansion) or on a pattern of tax collection that drove small-scale farmers into destitution (and onto a dole that required even more exactions upon those who could not escape taxation), or into dependency upon a landed élite exempt from taxation.
    The favorite tax code of the GOP. Tax the Middle Class heavily and reduce taxes on wealthy and corporations. "Trickle-Down," economics. Oh, and agricultural subsidies!

    With the cessation of tribute from conquered territories, the full cost of their military machine had to be borne by the citizenry.
    Continuation of the defense economy we have in too many domestic bases, and the maintaining of those overseas. Let Japan and South Korea pay for their own military defense. And, there is absolutely no reason for a base to remain in Germany. Not to mention the fact that the U.S. spends more on military than all of Europe combined.


    An economy based upon slave labor precluded a middle class with purchasing power. The Roman Empire produced few exportable goods. Material innovation, whether through entrepreneurialism or technological advancement, all but ended long before the final dissolution of the Empire.
    Do I need to draw you a picture for you to see the reference to China and the economy here!

    Meanwhile the costs of military defense and the pomp of Emperors continued. Financial needs continued to increase, but the means of meeting them steadily eroded. In the end due to economic failure, even the armor of soldiers deteriorated and the weaponry of soldiers became so obsolete to the extent that the enemies of the Empire had better armor and weapons as well as larger forces. The decrepit social order offered so little to its subjects that many saw the barbarian invasion as liberation from onerous obligations to the ruling class. By the late fifth century the barbarian conqueror Odoacer had no use for the formality of an Empire upon deposing Romulus Augustus and chose neither to assume the title of Emperor himself nor to select a puppet, although legally he kept the lands as a commander of the Eastern Empire and maintained the Roman institutions such as the consulship. The formal end of the Roman Empire corresponds with the time in which the Empire and the title Emperor no longer had value.
    Hmm, loss of jobs and no real growth....This does seem familiar.
    Last edited by tlmorg02; 07-09-09 at 04:26 PM.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why is your answer to every question an evasion?
    You've got room to talk. I've yet to see you answer a real question, or support a comment since I've been here. All i see from you is a buncha bitchin' at other posters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Panetta Admitted CIA Misled Congress Since 2001, Lawmakers Say

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who thinks the CIA only lied to Congress?

    The CIA does not lie. They may withhold certain information due to national securitty but lies- never. Well at least they don't lie to Americans just the enemy.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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