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Thread: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    LIBERAL mindset was that Blacks should not be used as slaves. LIBERAL mindset was the children should not be used as factory labor. LIBERAL mindset was that factories shouldn't be unsafe for their workers. LIBERAL mindset was the people shouldn't work for slave wages.

    This is UNCONTESTED. The conservative view is to keep things the same and not change.
    Uh, it is contested because you're basically attributing a lot of things to liberalism that really didn't have anything to do with liberalism.

    In fact, did you know that Thomas Jefferson, a raging liberal of his day, was a slave owner?

    Did you know it was the Republican Party that waged the war of aggression against the South?

    Working conditions have nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, left vs. right, nothing to do with it. It DOES have a lot to do with PEOPLE recognizing a **** situation in their lives, seeing that there is room for positive change, and then doing things to move towards it. That is completely unconnected with politics, but political factions were able to sense the change in the wind for those issues and grabbed on to it to gain votes. If you make the mistake that a political ideology is always correct, you're going to end up being led down the path of believing things that aren't true. You need to see the truth unconnected with political factions, otherwise you're going to end up being manipulated at some later point.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Uh, it is contested because you're basically attributing a lot of things to liberalism that really didn't have anything to do with liberalism.

    In fact, did you know that Thomas Jefferson, a raging liberal of his day, was a slave owner?

    Did you know it was the Republican Party that waged the war of aggression against the South?

    Working conditions have nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, left vs. right, nothing to do with it. It DOES have a lot to do with PEOPLE recognizing a **** situation in their lives, seeing that there is room for positive change, and then doing things to move towards it. That is completely unconnected with politics, but political factions were able to sense the change in the wind for those issues and grabbed on to it to gain votes. If you make the mistake that a political ideology is always correct, you're going to end up being led down the path of believing things that aren't true. You need to see the truth unconnected with political factions, otherwise you're going to end up being manipulated at some later point.

    In all fairness, Republicans were the Lefties of the 19th Century.

    Aside from that, though, you're right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    In all fairness, Republicans were the Lefties of the 19th Century.

    Aside from that, though, you're right.
    Well it just goes to show you how easily things can be manipulated. Guys like Jefferson are now called "classic liberals" and the reason they're called classic is because what liberalism is today isn't what it used to be. So to say liberalism is responsible for everything good in the world is so plainly blind ideology speaking. Jefferson is going to end up being marginalized by the liberals, because as "liberalism" is stretched so further out than what is used to be, it's becoming something separate entirely, eventually Jefferson is going to be written in the history books as somewhat a rather fringe character in the creation of the USA, simply because the politics of the future will be so disconnected from what this country was supposed to be founded on. This country was founded mostly by rebels seeking relief from tyrannical government. And as government get bigger, there will be less emphasis on how important rebellion is to freedom.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    In fact, did you know that Thomas Jefferson, a raging liberal of his day, was a slave owner?
    His ideas were still LIBERAL. Proving that liberal ideas are not the devil just because they are liberal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Did you know it was the Republican Party that waged the war of aggression against the South?
    A LIBERAL mindset, remember, I didn't attribute liberal to Republican or Dem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Working conditions have nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, left vs. right, nothing to do with it. It DOES have a lot to do with PEOPLE recognizing a **** situation in their lives, seeing that there is room for positive change, and then doing things to move towards it. That is completely unconnected with politics, but political factions were able to sense the change in the wind for those issues and grabbed on to it to gain votes. If you make the mistake that a political ideology is always correct, you're going to end up being led down the path of believing things that aren't true. You need to see the truth unconnected with political factions, otherwise you're going to end up being manipulated at some later point.
    WRONG, the CONSERVATIVE view at the time (We are leaving Republican and Dem out of it) was to keep it the SAME.

    LIBERAL views are what CHANGED it.

    Now that is not to say EVERYTHING liberal is good. For example if someone said we should make women slaves, that would be a LIBERAL view today.

    Bottom line is that not everything liberal is the devil and not everything conservative is the devil. This is fact.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 07-09-09 at 12:10 AM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    His ideas were still LIBERAL. Proving that liberal ideas are not the devil just because they are liberal.



    A LIBERAL mindset, remember, I didn't attribute liberal to Republican or Dem.



    WRONG, the CONSERVATIVE view at the time (We are leaving Republican and Dem out of it) was to keep it the SAME.

    LIBERAL views are what CHANGED it.

    Now that is not to say EVERYTHING liberal is good. For example if someone said we should make women slaves, that would be a LIBERAL view today.

    Bottom line is that not everything liberal is the devil. This is fact.
    Again, you're focusing so much on a single word than you are the actual ideas. See, right now you're engaged with me in this Liberal (Dem) vs. (Con) Repub battle, and it's really futile because I'm not talking to you from a conservative or Republican standpoint. I'm laying down my ideology to tell you that you're getting too wrapped up on argumentative, devisive, belligerent frame of mind.

    How in the world do you think enslaving Women would be a liberal idea? Do you think liberal is synonymous with "new" or "provocative" or something? Because it really isn't, and to even get a good idea of what you're talking about, you'd really have to look back at history to see how these political ideologies you think you know the first thing about, you need to look back and see how they developed over the decades and centuries.

    Edit: Oh I see you edited it somewhat:

    Bottom line is that not everything liberal is the devil and not everything conservative is the devil. This is fact.
    I like how you throw this in there at your tiny little concession to pragmatism, meanwhile you have ENTIRELY missed the ****ing point. But, no, don't let missing the entire ****ing point stop you from trying to reach out with the pragmatist angle. Seriously, it's like you eat breathe and sleep politics, no time for discussion, no time for reading, just time for manipulation of words in a futile attempt to appear like a "winner". You're a politician, through and through.
    Last edited by Liz Peeps; 07-09-09 at 12:15 AM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Now that is not to say EVERYTHING liberal is good. For example if someone said we should make women slaves, that would be a LIBERAL view today.
    What a joke. If some guy came out tomorrow and declared that all women should be our slaves, you know good and damn well he would be called a right-wing nutjob from the get-go, the reason being that liberals are the ones who are supposedly for the advancement of women and womens' rights.
    Last edited by G.I. Joe; 07-09-09 at 12:18 AM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    What a joke. If some guy came out tomorrow and declared that all women should be our slaves, you know good and damn well he would be called a right-wing nutjob from the get-go.
    He doesn't understand politics or political ideologies, that's why he's talking like that.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Again, you're focusing so much on a single word than you are the actual ideas. See, right now you're engaged with me in this Liberal (Dem) vs. (Con) Repub battle, and it's really futile because I'm not talking to you from a conservative or Republican standpoint. I'm laying down my ideology to tell you that you're getting too wrapped up on argumentative, devisive, belligerent frame of mind.
    Uh you are the one that mentioned Dem/Rep not me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    How in the world do you think enslaving Women would be a liberal idea?
    Because it is changing from the norm a (considered maybe by some progressive). Liberal aka progressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Do you think liberal is synonymous with "new" or "provocative" or something? Because it really isn't, and to even get a good idea of what you're talking about, you'd really have to look back at history to see how these political ideologies you think you know the first thing about, you need to look back and see how they developed over the decades and centuries.

    Edit: Oh I see you edited it somewhat:
    It actually is Liberal is known as progressive.

    That can be a good or bad thing in situations. Conservative is keeping things the same. You cannot have a PURE conservative or PURE liberal society. It takes a balance which is my point.

    Are you trying to say that a PURE conservative or PURE liberal society can exist?



    I like how you throw this in there at your tiny little concession to pragmatism, meanwhile you have ENTIRELY missed the ****ing point. But, no, don't let missing the entire ****ing point stop you from trying to reach out with the pragmatist angle. Seriously, it's like you eat breathe and sleep politics, no time for discussion, no time for reading, just time for manipulation of words in a futile attempt to appear like a "winner". You're a politician, through and through.[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    What a joke. If some guy came out tomorrow and declared that all women should be our slaves, you know good and damn well he would be called a right-wing nutjob from the get-go, the reason being that liberals are the ones who are supposedly for the advancement of women and womens' rights.
    Maybe he would by some, but by DEFINITION, he would be liberal. A liberal is considered to be a progressive. Is ALL progressive good?

    Is progressive towards fascism good? Is progressive towards slavery good?

    That doesn't mean all liberalism is bad, but it doesn't mean all liberalism is good.

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    Re: Obama Administration Grant Program De-Emphasizing Job Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Uh you are the one that mentioned Dem/Rep not me.




    Because it is changing from the norm a (considered maybe by some progressive). Liberal aka progressive.



    It actually is Liberal is known as progressive.

    That can be a good or bad thing in situations. Conservative is keeping things the same. You cannot have a PURE conservative or PURE liberal society. It takes a balance which is my point.

    Are you trying to say that a PURE conservative or PURE liberal society can exist?



    I like how you throw this in there at your tiny little concession to pragmatism, meanwhile you have ENTIRELY missed the ****ing point. But, no, don't let missing the entire ****ing point stop you from trying to reach out with the pragmatist angle. Seriously, it's like you eat breathe and sleep politics, no time for discussion, no time for reading, just time for manipulation of words in a futile attempt to appear like a "winner". You're a politician, through and through.
    [/QUOTE]
    Youre not even making sense. You say that because an idea breaks from the norm makes it inherently liberal. So if I want Obama to do a 180 on his stances then I am now liberal?

    Also, your analogy of womens' rights is fundamentally flawed. How can you call the enslavement of women a "progressive" idea merely because it is different? You realize that there was a point in history in this country and others when women yielded virtually no power, right? In fact, there are places in the world today when this is still true. So how is reverting to an idea of the past "progressive"?

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