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Ethical storm flares as British scientists create artificial sperm

The god damned geeks are hunting Nobel Prizes and they don't care who they hurt to get them. Scientists are some of the most vicious people in the world.

I don't think it's that so much as their level of ethical sophistication is not measured in accord with the level of power/responsibility they wield. But then again, I'm not sure what group of people would be. Mankind in general lags morally behind their technological prowess.
 
I don't think it's that so much as their level of ethical sophistication is not measured in accord with the level of power/responsibility they wield. But then again, I'm not sure what group of people would be. Mankind in general lags morally behind their technological prowess.

I'm personally in favor of liberalizing scientific research back to an individual level as it used to be. Lifting bans on chemicals, lab ware etc.

Overall you are right though, I think that most of those ethic problems stem from the institutions that fund the programs, like governments, private industries et all.
 
Never have needed men to reproduce. Only their sperm. Now we don't even need that. ****ing fantastic. :mrgreen:
 
Never have needed men to reproduce. Only their sperm. Now we don't even need that. ****ing fantastic. :mrgreen:

Yeah but where is the fun in that? My gal happens to enjoy moi:)
 
My problem with this is that we are allowing inferior genetics to continue to exist.

But don't we do that anyway with IVF and the countless medical breakthroughs we have now.

If injections and vaccinations did not exist, only the strong would be alive now and the population probably wouldn't be this big or problematic but we have gotten to the routine of keeping people alive through science
 
The god damned geeks are hunting Nobel Prizes and they don't care who they hurt to get them. Scientists are some of the most vicious people in the world.

Thank god for those geeks.
We wouldn't be where we are now without scientists and brainiacs
 
But don't we do that anyway with IVF and the countless medical breakthroughs we have now.

If injections and vaccinations did not exist, only the strong would be alive now and the population probably wouldn't be this big or problematic but we have gotten to the routine of keeping people alive through science

I'm not a total genetic purity type guy but I think that IVF and other such products of science are detrimental to our whole civilization.

Vaccinations don't perpetuate a genetic problem like IVF and other fertility treatments do. They continue the existence of the infertile, which requires continued intervention by science.

Immunities can be fixed by continuing natural breeding in humans.
Infertility is usually a deal breaker that can't be fixed with natural breeding.
 
I'm not a total genetic purity type guy but I think that IVF and other such products of science are detrimental to our whole civilization.

So you take the stance that if a couple cannot have a child naturally, they shouldn't be able to get science help to concieve through artifical means?
 
So you take the stance that if a couple cannot have a child naturally, they shouldn't be able to get science help to concieve through artifical means?

At this moment I think it is a poor choice of encouraging procreation.
There is a lot of emotion involved in this but I can't overlook the long term consequences of these procedures.

It's not good for all humans as we perpetuate lesser genetic attributes that weave their way through our planets populations.
 
:spank: NO! :2razz:
What? You'll be fed well enough, don't worry. We women aren't nearly as mean to our slaves as most men are.

Yeah but where is the fun in that? My gal happens to enjoy moi:)

Well, she will be allowed to keep you. Women will be allowed as many sex slaves as they wish, of course.
 
Women will be allowed as many sex slaves as they wish, of course.

I vote for rivrrat to be leader when women rule the world =D
 
Good news or bad?

I think time will tell. It's good news in general, but until we see how it's actually used, we won't know what kind of societal impact it will have. We'll also have to see how babies conceived using this artificial sperm compare to babies conceived naturally.

As far as I know, the age of the biological father at conception has little to do with the health of the baby, so the issue with accelerated aging in clones shouldn't be an issue. I shouldn't comment much further on this, though, with the presence of actual experts.

As the law stands right now, creating any form of life or fertility treatment through cloning or atificial sperm is illegal and will stay that way, it will need a primary legislation to change it but seeing women can have IVF. Shouldn't men also be able to eventually get access to the same treatment? Infertility of men has been slowly increasing.

I share Harry Guerilla's concerns that this will lead to increasing infertility rates in the species, and help propagate genetic defects that will inhibit our ability to reproduce without artificial assistance. Of course, the same concerns present themselves with older forms of fertility assistance, but this seems like a much greater form of assistance.

Then again, it would prove a boon to men who have been sterilized by injury or environmental factors. Not to mention, the possibilities that it opens up for lesbian couples, who would be able to raise children who are biologically descended from both. After all, I don't believe there is any fundamental difference in male and female skin that would make one suitable for the creation of artificial sperm and the other not.

I think the law should be amended if needed for the scientists to research and more power given to the independent body to regulate and enforce the rules.

Personally, I say let them play. There's no real danger from these technologies unless they're released on the mass market before they're fully developed; as long as all of the experiments are confined to a laboratory setting, they're not capable of creating any problem that can't be solved by a couple of hard men with shotguns.

I'm not going to be greatly concerned until they're ready to start using this technology on a governmental or consumer scale.

But those against this have been out in force on BBC and SKY saying we are going down a no go zone and playing God

Heh. If God didn't want us playing with his toys, why'd he leave them in the sandbox where we could find them? Any god that doesn't look on with pride as we try to transcend our limitations isn't worthy of worship, in my opinion.

Can we prevent tyrants from cloning themselves or governments from growing "super-soldiers." What about the effects from such work on people's psyche?

No sense trying to stop tyrants from making clones of themselves. It's just a costly and inefficient form of reproduction, and most tyrants are perfectly capable of reproducing with a little natural assistance anyway.

I actually look forward to "super soldiers". Unless they're being deliberately designed for "benefits" such as being too dumb to question orders-- which is better accomplished through indoctrination-- they'll end up being an improvement over baseline humanity in numerous capacities. Unless the government sterilizes their stormtroopers, those improvements will eventually leak out into the general populace.

Can you explain a little more what you're worried about, in regards to the effects on people's psyche?

There are numerous ethical questions to this work. However, if it is maintained and used for medical good, then science has performed it's job.

How do you define "medical good", though? Is it only the prevention and treatment of disease, or do you include enhancement as "medical good"? It seems that too many people are obsessed with maintaining the genetic status quo in our species, despite how this flies in the face of natural development. They seem to view our species as the pinnacle of evolution, or at least as the "natural" form from which all deviation is an error.

... and the experimenting labs would have be carefully monitored because living experiments that "fail" are still humans, and that lab is responsible for the lifetime care and support of their mistakes when they begin playing with human development.

There's no more reason for this than there is to implant every single zygote conceived in the process of performing IVF for an infertile couple.
 
It's not good for all humans as we perpetuate lesser genetic attributes that weave their way through our planets populations.

Agreed.
There is a trend happening in UK and across Europe, i remember a lecture in sociology explaining how those in the higher bracket of wealth and education wise were having less children whereas those in the lower brackets were having many and my professor was speculating whether it would create a generation of children with lesser intelligence *shrugs*
 
Agreed.
There is a trend happening in UK and across Europe, i remember a lecture in sociology explaining how those in the higher bracket of wealth and education wise were having less children whereas those in the lower brackets were having many and my professor was speculating whether it would create a generation of children with lesser intelligence *shrugs*

That's one of the problems I have with Medicaid (free government insurance for poor people in the states.)

Having a larger population isn't good on its own.
To argue that poor people shouldn't have more children marks you as an elitist, even though it is for humanitarian purposes.

Large populations of ignorant and unintelligent people leaves the door wide open for abuse. I can't support such a blind and ignorant policy.
 
That's one of the problems I have with Medicaid (free government insurance for poor people in the states.)

Having a larger population isn't good on its own.
To argue that poor people shouldn't have more children marks you as an elitist, even though it is for humanitarian purposes.

Adults should be able to have the children they can afford. If you can take care of one child, have one. If eight, have fun and good luck.

The one thing that pisses me off no end is when i see women on benefits in UK and pops out 8+ children and it is the taxpayer footing the bill.
I think after 1 child, benefits should be stopped and they should have to pay for what comes out of them.
 
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Adults should be able to have the children they can afford. If you can take care of one child, have one. If eight, have fun and good luck.

The one thing that pisses me off no end is when i see women on benefits in UK and pops out 8+ children and it is the taxpayer footing the bill.
I think after 1 child, benefits should be stopped and they should be have to pay for what comes out of them.

That bothers me a great deal as well. It creates an entire class of welfare recipients that grows and grows.

There are many people here who do the same thing, often they don't marry the baby daddy to continue to receive benefits even though the father may still live with them.
Then since they are not married they can split easily without any legal problems and the children exist in a split parent household.

This makes me rethink my position on government and marriage.
 
At this moment I think it is a poor choice of encouraging procreation.
There is a lot of emotion involved in this but I can't overlook the long term consequences of these procedures.

It's not good for all humans as we perpetuate lesser genetic attributes that weave their way through our planets populations.

To a certain extent you may be right on the perpetuation of lesser genetic quality. However, there are many external factors that can lead to sterility. Whether it be exposer to a substance, violent injury, or other environmental factors, people can have strong genetic make-up, yet still have fertility problems. In that regard, IVT needs to remain a viable option.

Another thought would be that as society advances, it may not necessarily be the genetically blessed in physical strength that have the upperhand, but rather the mentally capable. Intelligence may very well be valued over the physically strong, and there is no reason to think that in the future natural selection may not change it's means.
 
That's one of the problems I have with Medicaid (free government insurance for poor people in the states.)

Having a larger population isn't good on its own.
To argue that poor people shouldn't have more children marks you as an elitist, even though it is for humanitarian purposes.

Large populations of ignorant and unintelligent people leaves the door wide open for abuse. I can't support such a blind and ignorant policy.

Where will get the workers and such. Can't all of us be chiefs.
 
That bothers me a great deal as well. It creates an entire class of welfare recipients that grows and grows.

UK has a situation where the North of England (Where Thatchers hand of death came into play) are more dependent on the state than communist cuba :doh

We have a underclass that are actually living on benefits, actually living on it as if it a lifestyle!! And the more children they have, the more benefits.

And it now becoming a choice for teenagers who have no aspirations.
Have a child and the state will give you a flat and money
 
The fun is that now we can stop pacifying and babying you men and just keep you as slaves as it should have been from the beginning.

My wife already treats me as a slave, in all aspects of life!:lol:

But I thank you for the visual, as you were naked when you wrote your reply.;)
 
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