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Thread: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

  1. #31
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Well, actually, what's important is whether or not any crime was committed.

    Oh, wait, the President can haul off and dismiss any US attorney at anytime, because they serve at his pleasure.

    No crime committed.

    Rove can't be guilty.

    Although it is true that attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president, when they are dismissed because they are selectively prosecuting some, and turning a blind eye to others, based on political party membership, the line from legality to criminal conduct is crossed, and that is what the Congressional hearings are all about - Was a crime committed by anybody in Bush's cabinet, or on his staff, in regard to politically motivated prosecutions, and the fired attorneys' refusal to engage in them?

    To make such a sweeping generalization by itself, without consideration of the circumstances involved, is highly unethical, if not downright dishonest.
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-08-09 at 06:05 PM.
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Rove has been hiding behind the claim that he is protected by executive privilage and didn't have to testify or even appear before congress when issued a subponea. Obama or anybody in his administration has not even given the hint of doing such a thing.

    I feel it is just as hyperpartisian to start a thread about Karl Rove and imply that Obama will be guilty of doing the same thing when there hasn't even been a hint of such a thing.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pol...-doing-so.html


  3. #33
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    has he done the opposite because you haven't done your homework and are believing what you are told? I think so. Of all the presidents I have lived through, he is the most forthright and open president I have ever witnessed. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he isn't being as transparent as his office allows.
    Wait a second. He has done the opposite because I haven't done my homework? Where is the transparency with the czars? Why is he refusing to release the list of WH visitors? Why is he shoving bills through Congress and not allowing enough time for them to read them? Why is he signing bills before giving the public time to read them first (as he promised in his campaign)? More transparent my ass!

    And for full disclosure, I don't think McCain would be much different and I didn't like McCain either. But the difference is that Obama ran on a platform of transparency and he is failing miserably.

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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    John Conyers (D-MI) is issuing subpoenas.. Well thats just fantastic. The irony is just staggering.

    Wife of Judiciary Chairman Conyers Pleads Guilty to Bribery


    "After initially opposing a sludge contract with Synagro, Mrs. Conyers, after accepting a bribe, became the deciding vote in the city council on a resolution to approve the contract.

    Mrs. Conyers faces up to 5 year in prison, three years supervised release and/or a $250,000 fine."

    I wonder if he is going to use the Jefferson defense when his supoenas arrive.

    i.e. " My bribes did not interfere with my congressional duty".



    Oh and if Rove can be proven guilty of something then prosecute to the max too.
    Wow--the first reply is an Ad Hominem attack on Coyner's wife no less. -- You make no attempt whatsoever to deal with the original post and review the nature of the case against Rove.

    BTW -- That little disclaimer at the end doesn't negate the fallacy.

    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).
    We need to post the most often used fallacies on the main page--it would save a lot of time if people would stop with this type of lameness.

  5. #35
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    What law?
    From the memo:

    http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-s...emo_072407.pdf

    "Firing a U.S. Attorney in order to impede or obstruct a pending criminal case, or a pending criminal investigation, could constitute an obstruction of justice. (snip) If Mr. Iglesias or another prosecutor was fired in retaliation for failing to bring vote fraud cases that lacked a reasonable legal or factual basis, the firing could also violate the criminal Hatch Act prohibition on retaliation contained in 18 USC 606. (snip) To the extent a prosecutor was fired in order to bring in a more compliant individual to pursue politically advantageous cases, such misconduct could possibly violate the prohibitions on obstructing government proceedings contained in 18 USC 1505 and 18 USC 1512(c)(2)."

    "Concerns about the apparently political nature of these firings are only heightened by the emerging allegations that some U.S. Attorneys who were retained by the Department - the so-called "loyal Bushies" - may have selectively prosecuted Democrats. Bringing the force of the federal criminal justice apparatus to bear on an individual based in any way on that person's political affiliation is a clear abuse of the prosecutorial function, and may well violate the person's civil rights.

    "Evidence that such wrongdoing may have occurred includes a recent academic study finding that federal prosecutors during the Bush Administration have indicted Democratic officeholders far more frequently than their Republican counterparts. The study's authors found that of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats, and noted that local Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to be subject to criminal charges from the Department of Justice."

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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    The study's authors found that of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats, and noted that local Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to be subject to criminal charges from the Department of Justice."
    Good lord, I would have thought it would have been more balanced than that. I wonder if they have numbers for other Presidencies?
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Although it is true that attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president, when they are dismissed because they are selectively prosecuting some, and turning a blind eye to others, based on political party membership, the line from legality to criminal conduct is crossed, and that is what the Congressional hearings are all about - Was a crime committed by anybody in Bush's cabinet, or on his staff, in regard to politically motivated prosecutions, and the fired attorneys' refusal to engage in them?

    To make such a sweeping generalization by itself, without consideration of the circumstances involved, is highly unethical, if not downright dishonest.
    lol if this were the case then why wouldn't he have just fired all of the Federal Attorneys at the beginning and just hired all new loyal sycophants? And sometimes the POTUS should fire federal attorneys that won't go after people and/or are going after people for political reasons which is the inverse of what you suggested and happens a lot more often. Has William Jefferson been prosecuted yet?
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-08-09 at 08:00 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    From the memo:

    http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-s...emo_072407.pdf

    "Firing a U.S. Attorney in order to impede or obstruct a pending criminal case, or a pending criminal investigation, could constitute an obstruction of justice. (snip)
    What criminal case?

    If Mr. Iglesias or another prosecutor was fired in retaliation for failing to bring vote fraud cases that lacked a reasonable legal or factual basis, the firing could also violate the criminal Hatch Act prohibition on retaliation contained in 18 USC 606. (snip)
    Show me evidence that Iglesias was fired for failing to bring vote fraud cases for Republican benefit.

    To the extent a prosecutor was fired in order to bring in a more compliant individual to pursue politically advantageous cases, such misconduct could possibly violate the prohibitions on obstructing government proceedings contained in 18 USC 1505 and 18 USC 1512(c)(2)."
    These are accusations of obstruction of justice which I have yet to see evidence for, that's a crime but firing more democrats than republicans in and of itself isn't a crime. And I've yet to see evidence for these secret agreements between the AG's who were hired to replace those who were fired.

    "Concerns about the apparently political nature of these firings are only heightened by the emerging allegations that some U.S. Attorneys who were retained by the Department - the so-called "loyal Bushies" - may have selectively prosecuted Democrats. Bringing the force of the federal criminal justice apparatus to bear on an individual based in any way on that person's political affiliation is a clear abuse of the prosecutorial function, and may well violate the person's civil rights.

    "Evidence that such wrongdoing may have occurred includes a recent academic study finding that federal prosecutors during the Bush Administration have indicted Democratic officeholders far more frequently than their Republican counterparts. The study's authors found that of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats, and noted that local Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to be subject to criminal charges from the Department of Justice."
    "They Identified"?

    A) Who is "they".

    B) What is the actual total of firings?

  9. #39
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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    "Evidence that such wrongdoing may have occurred includes a recent academic study finding that federal prosecutors during the Bush Administration have indicted Democratic officeholders far more frequently than their Republican counterparts. The study's authors found that of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats, and noted that local Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to be subject to criminal charges from the Department of Justice."
    In other words, Democrats are seven times more likely to be corrupt than their counterparts.

    Thank you for that clarification.

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    Re: Rove deposed — over eight hour period — in US Attorney firings

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I have heard people saying this before.

    Would you provide a link to supporting evidence?

    Or is this known by all, and just being ignored?
    Since Truth Detector magnificently provided the link,m i'll address the final part of your comments.

    It is known by everyone in Congress, and the are doing exactly what I suggested in my earlier post: they are attempting to perform extra-constitutional jurisprudence.

    This is what the dominant Party has sunk to, and the descent shows no signs of slowing.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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