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Thread: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

  1. #101
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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    So what you're saying is vast government programs are ok when you agree with them.
    Let me help you out, national defense is a constitutional right and responsibility of the federal government, it is not only allowed to the federal it is required of it. Welfare and other social programs are not rights of the federal government and are constitutionally prohibited under the ninth, and tenth amendments, that a rogue Supreme Court allowed the fed the original lattitude in sidestepping the constitution under FDR was bad enough, that many in this country took that ball and ran with it after is a damn shame.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Let me help you out, national defense is a constitutional right and responsibility of the federal government, it is not only allowed to the federal it is required of it. Welfare and other social programs are not rights of the federal government and are constitutionally prohibited under the ninth, and tenth amendments, that a rogue Supreme Court allowed the fed the original lattitude in sidestepping the constitution under FDR was bad enough, that many in this country took that ball and ran with it after is a damn shame.
    But we're not debating what's constitutional, we're debating whether or not we support big government.

    The Constitution actually allows for a pretty powerful Federal government.

    And this is avoiding the elephant in the room...all the Evangelical Christian endorsed invasive social programs that Republicans love so much.

    Again, no big government...except for Jesus and bombs.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    No, big government is the government spending huge amounts of money and mobilizing millions of citizens, which is EXACTLY what the military is. All the true libertarian Enlightenment liberals that wrote the constitution were terrified of the government having a standing army.

    And the military industrial complex makes a mockery of any kind of market relationship between the government and arms builders.

    You don't dislike big government, you just like buying bombs more then feeding people.
    Yes, I do like buying bombs more than feeding people. You know why? Bombs protect the taxpayers that bought them with their hard-earned money.

    Feeding people? Feed yourself. Why would I place a higher value on buying someone else's food over funding the defense of our nation?

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Yes, I do like buying bombs more than feeding people. You know why? Bombs protect the taxpayers that bought them with their hard-earned money.

    Feeding people? Feed yourself. Why would I place a higher value on buying someone else's food over funding the defense of our nation?
    Well that's fabulous and I'm sure we could have a debate on that point, however, stop maintaining that you support small government
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Why would I place a higher value on buying someone else's food over funding the defense of our nation?
    You can maintain a National Defense AND feed people. There is nothing in the consitution that says we have to maintain a National Defense Budget as high as it is now.

    There isn't only an "OR" option there.

  6. #106
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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You can maintain a National Defense AND feed people. There is nothing in the consitution that says we have to maintain a National Defense Budget as high as it is now.

    There isn't only an "OR" option there.
    I don't think the US has legitimately used its military to defend the nation since WWII.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Well that's fabulous and I'm sure we could have a debate on that point, however, stop maintaining that you support small government
    Ok I thought I explained why a strong military didn't equate to a large government, but I'll try again.

    If we eradicated every entitlement/welfare program, or any other program the government wasn't designed for, and put HALF of that money toward the military, we would have a much stronger national defense while maintaining a smaller government. Not to mention it would further exclude the government out of the lives' of the people, making it "smaller" in another sense.

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Ok I thought I explained why a strong military didn't equate to a large government, but I'll try again.

    If we eradicated every entitlement/welfare program, or any other program the government wasn't designed for, and put HALF of that money toward the military, we would have a much stronger national defense while maintaining a smaller government. Not to mention it would further exclude the government out of the lives' of the people, making it "smaller" in another sense.
    You didn't explain anything, you just said "no...it doesn't count...because I like it."

    So if we stopped spending money on stuff you don't like, and spent more money on stuff you DO like, we'd have a smaller government.

    Wait...

    What if we stopped spending money on stuff YOU like and spent more money on stuff I like...holy crap, we'd have smaller government!
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  9. #109
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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    But we're not debating what's constitutional, we're debating whether or not we support big government.
    Then we are debating the same thing as an overreaching federal government is unconstitutional.

    The Constitution actually allows for a pretty powerful Federal government.
    No, it doesn't. Amendment nine states that all powers not granted to the federal government are held by the people, that breaks down to states and local governments, the tenth amendment prohibits government from exercising those powers not granted to it. The powers granted to the federal are of a very small scope, they have the power to raise taxes, print money, raise a defense, and regulate interstate commerce(not to be construed as products sold in two or more states, it applies to commerce arguments between the states such as unfair taxes, tariffs, etc.).

    QUOTE]And this is avoiding the elephant in the room...all the Evangelical Christian endorsed invasive social programs that Republicans love so much.[/QUOTE] Who said Republicans like the Evangelicals, they get used by the GOP like the Democrats use other minorities such as blacks, gays, hippies, jews, hispanics, the poor, etc.

    Again, no big government...except for Jesus and bombs.
    Bombs are part of acceptable big government as they are proper maintenance(i.e. "regulation") of the defense of nation, promotion of Jesus by the federal would not be an acceptable usage of big government, and this does NOT excuse Democrat abuses and overreach of federal authority on all fronts since the early 1900's and complete ignoring of constitutional limits by any means.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Franken sworn in as Minnesota senator

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You can maintain a National Defense AND feed people. There is nothing in the consitution that says we have to maintain a National Defense Budget as high as it is now.

    There isn't only an "OR" option there.
    No, there isn't a defense spending minimum in the constitution, there you are correct, but there is a prohibition on social spending.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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