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Obama agrees arms cuts, Afghan transit with Russia

Apparently Democrats are the one who're stuck in the Cold War (according to the poster on the first page) but the last two pages are filled with Republicans crying about a past President and the Cold War.

Also, we can't attack Russia anyway. Are you guys insane? At the very least, assuming we could actually win in Russia while we're engaged in two wars and broke financially (and that's a big assumption), they'll bomb the hell out of us. Yay, let's let our American civilians die because Republicans have an inferiority complex.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Question:

What about the disaster known on the Left as President Carter? It's my understanding that he made them almost as nervous as he made the Americans.
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I don’t know. I don’t know what Russians thought about Carter. I couldn’t watch it, it was the Communist era in Russia, and a different era in the US. I have no interest in researching Carter.
I think it is beyond historical left-right partisanship, I hope you noticed that I noticed that even Clinton was acting as a POTUS even when impeached. A Left may be a Left because he is misinformed or uninformed. Some good friends of mine are liberals and good people at the same time. I hope you noticed my critics of Bush’s approach to Russia and stimulus. But no decent person in the position of the SOTUS would go to a foreign PM and initiate a conversation about (how bad was) his predecessor (also while being even worse). This is about the baboon giggling at ‘traditional’ Putin’s jokes, and taking the place of the POTUS.



a sample of the 'traditional" jokes:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSOOCos6Es4&feature=related"]YouTube - Putin disses Bush[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqmZkrm0jVw&feature=related"]YouTube - Putin at Larry King' show[/ame]

……… ……. she sank…….. or in other words – what a stupid question (at this time and this place)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMifzZehatE&feature=related"]YouTube - Incident at the Putin's Press conference[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55SxoaiJjw&feature=related"]YouTube - Putin placed Hillary where she belongs (St Valentine's Day)[/ame]
The French press leaked out that Putin wanted Georgian President Saakashvili to be hanged by the balls but Sarkozy was so great that he talked Putin out of this action (goingto the capital of Georgia and taking the criminal down as Bush took Sadam)

In Russia Putin answers direct calls, so you can call him from the US and ask any questions.

So the caller asks – is it true that you wished to hung Saakashvili by A certain part of the body (avoiding saying by ballS)? Putin answers question with a question, -‘ Why by A part? ‘ (meaning that Saakashvili has 2 balls.) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP1ZzcSjlDA"]YouTube - Putin about Saakashvili's balls[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3INgrK_xxm4&feature=related"]YouTube - Ответ Путина француз�кому журнали�ту на �аммите[/ame]
And I don’t see how he makes Russians nervous. Putin has no nerves. As all Russians he is quite sentimental, but in a fight he has no nerves. This is the proof of the both qualities. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdXwu2MXR_s"]YouTube - Putin Judo[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3m5nFpRcQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Vladimir Putin Kisses Young Boy On The Stomach[/ame]


And here he and his coach list all qualities absent in the baboon.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7yjCaCQPO8"]YouTube - Putin & Co to teach you judo[/ame]


Putin Warns US About Socialism
‘’In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state's role absolute. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.
Nor should we turn a blind eye to the fact that the spirit of free enterprise, including the principle of personal responsibility of businesspeople, investors and shareholders for their decisions, is being eroded in the last few months. There is no reason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.
And one more point: anti-crisis measures should not escalate into financial populism and a refusal to implement responsible macroeconomic policies. The unjustified swelling of the budgetary deficit and the accumulation of public debts are just as destructive as adventurous stock-jobbing.’’
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK6Dk_DUs_4&feature=channel"]YouTube - "US should listen to Putin"[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMR1BZ9aYM8"]YouTube - Putin answers questions at Davos[/ame]


Should I comment? Or you can do it for me?
 
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WillRockwell said:
You prefer a nuclear standoff?
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Not sure I trust Putin, I don't even trust Obama that much. It all sounds good but the devil in in the details.
 
American said:
Not sure I trust Putin, I don't even trust Obama that much. It all sounds good but the devil in in the details.
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I am just trying to make a Putin’s style reply.

Little children trust their mothers. We know that. You are not a child, and I am not your mother. I am not asking you trust me, and the less I need your trust when you are not sure. We want to build our relation like a business partnership. And we have to look at all the details to make the business mutually profitable. If any detail is unclear to you you have to address it openly amd directly, and to expect the same from other side.

This is difference between the 2 politicians. Obama wants you to trust him not going into any details. Putin does not want you to trust him, but to trust yourself. It seems like many in the US have a big problem with trusting themselves. And you express it.

Did I ever say in my posts “trust me’? No. I always said look at the details and make an attempt to trust to yourself. Not to me, not to what you know from somebody else, but to yourself.

You are wrong – God is in details, evil avoids details.
 
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This is the first time (I think) that Obama has met Medvedev or Putin since he became president. He didn't go to Russia with the intent to solve every single point of contention we have with them. The State Department usually lays the groundwork for major policy agreements behind the scenes, and the President just shows up to sign it. The purpose of this meeting was mostly for Obama to meet with the Russian leaders and to pledge a new beginning in our relations.

A reduction in nuclear arms is a great place to start the long task of mending Russo-American relations. Neither country is really giving anything up. But most importantly, it flatters the Russians, because they will believe that their country has just helped make the world a safer place. More than anything, most Russian people just want to be taken seriously by the United States. I think a lot of the hostility in recent years stems from the feeling among Russians that they were NOT taken seriously when they were weak during the 1990s. That's not to say that we won't have any conflicts with them if only we take them seriously...but the mutual hostility between the countries would be greatly reduced and it would make cooperation on areas of mutual interest much easier. This seems like a good place to start. It's a nice gesture on the United States' part, but doesn't actually give away much.

As for the Afghan transit line, that's great. It's in both of our countries' interests to fight Islamic extremism in Afpak, and this is a perfect example where resentment of the United States had previously prevented Russia from cooperating even when they could benefit as well. It's not going to change the course of the war by itself, but it is helpful. To those who are attaching sinister motives to this, I think you're being paranoid. Remember that just because we're opening a Russian supply line doesn't mean that we have to close our other supply lines and become dependent on this.

Both Obama and Medvedev wanted to walk away with this meeting with some sort of token agreement so that they could present it as a victory to their citizens. Obama got the Afghan supply line agreement, and Medvedev got the missile reduction agreement. Seems fair to me.
 
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Kandahar said:
This is the first time (I think) that Obama has met Medvedev or Putin since he became president. He didn't go to Russia with the intent to solve every single point of contention we have with them. The State Department usually lays the groundwork for major policy agreements behind the scenes, and the President just shows up to sign it. .
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That is all correct.

Kandahar said:
The purpose of this meeting was mostly for Obama to meet with the Russian leaders and to pledge a new beginning in our relations. .
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At the meeting Obama made an impression of a baboon taking the place of the POTUS and pledged the continuation of the same relations.

Kandahar said:
Neither country is really giving anything up. .
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That is correct.

Kandahar said:
But most importantly, it flatters the Russians, because they will believe that their country has just helped make the world a safer place. More than anything, most Russian people just want to be taken seriously by the United States. .
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Putin has explicitly said that the world does not consist of the US, or the US do not make up the world. Russian people do not take the United States as seriously as the United States wants them to do. The poem says – we Russians have our own pride. With the Russian state Department pointing to Putin making his traditional jokes – Russians take Obama and the US as a joke.

I am sorry I cannot answer to all other questions of yours, have no time.
 
justone said:
I am just trying to make a Putin’s style reply.

Little children trust their mothers. We know that. You are not a child, and I am not your mother. I am not asking you trust me, and the less I need your trust when you are not sure. We want to build our relation like a business partnership. And we have to look at all the details to make the business mutually profitable. If any detail is unclear to you you have to address it openly amd directly, and to expect the same from other side.

This is difference between the 2 politicians. Obama wants you to trust him not going into any details. Putin does not want you to trust him, but to trust yourself. It seems like many in the US have a big problem with trusting themselves. And you express it.

Did I ever say in my posts “trust me’? No. I always said look at the details and make an attempt to trust to yourself. Not to me, not to what you know from somebody else, but to yourself.

You are wrong – God is in details, evil avoids details.
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justone, "devil is in the details" is a figure of speech. Don't get wrapped about the axle.
 
American said:
justone, "devil is in the details" is a figure of speech. Don't get wrapped about the axle.
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I asked you to avoid clichés …


Let's scatter our words
As the garden scatters amber zest,
Absentmindedly and generously
Bit by bit by bit.

Let's not discuss
Why the leaves are patterned
So formally
With ruby and lemon.

Who welled up with needles
And gushed through the slats,
The floodgate blinds,
Onto the music books in the shelf.

Who dyed the outdoor mat
With rowan berries
Like a canvas of diaphanous,
Trembling italics.

You will ask, who ordains
That August should be great,
For whom is nothing too small,
Who is absorbed with etching

A maple leaf
And who, from the time of Ecclesiastes,
Hasn't quit his post
Hewing alabaster?

You will ask, who ordains
That the September lips
Of asters and dahlias should suffer?
That the fine leaves of broom
Should waft from greying caryatids
Onto the damp flagstones
Of autumn hospitals?

You will ask, who ordains?
- The all-powerful God of details,
The all-powerful God of love,
Of Jehovan and Jadwigas.

I don't know if the dark riddle
Of the tomb has been solved;
But life, like autumn
Silence, is in the details.


God is in every leaf of every tree - Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science
 
The arms cuts where meaningless and at worse detrimental to US strategic air assets.

The Russian allowing weaponry to be flown instead of railed through their nation was just something they gave as a gift...btw how many tons of ammo can you carry by rail vs air?.. Obama played no role in it whatsoever and its value is marginal e at best.


Putin and his puppet Medenev played glory boy like a top.... and won.
Putin will be more ambitious in the future as he should be...
Ukraine better start sweating because Putin covets chunk of that nation and Obama clearly will trade it for a speech.

Putin is a real leader..wish we had a President like him...as long as we don't Putin wil gladly take full advantage.
 
Triad said:
The arms cuts where meaningless and at worse detrimental to US strategic air assets.
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It's not detrimental. Meaningless, yes. But that's OK. It's a goodwill gesture from the United States to Russia.

Triad said:
The Russian allowing weaponry to be flown instead of railed through their nation was just something they gave as a gift...btw how many tons of ammo can you carry by rail vs air?.. Obama played no role in it whatsoever and its value is marginal e at best.
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Marginally valuable, yes. But that's OK. It's a goodwill gesture from Russia to the United States.

Triad said:
Putin and his puppet Medenev played glory boy like a top.... and won.
Putin will be more ambitious in the future as he should be...
Ukraine better start sweating because Putin covets chunk of that nation and Obama clearly will trade it for a speech.

Putin is a real leader..wish we had a President like him...as long as we don't Putin wil gladly take full advantage.
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I'm trying to figure out what you think Obama "traded for a speech" or how Putin "took full advantage," since you agree that both our token gesture and theirs were meaningless. Did I miss Obama's announcement that we were withdrawing from NATO? Was it on during the MJ funeral? :confused:
 
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Kandahar said:
Don't trust him to do what? Are you saying you DID trust the Soviets?
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''For us in Russia communism is a dead dog. For many people in the West, it is still a living lion.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn (Russian novelist, Nobel Prize for Literature (1970)

Some people keep on fighting with chimeras (lions) of their own minds.












To make sure, I don't mean you, Kandahar in this particular case.


Edit. I am glad to see that you have intelligence to see that I don't mean you. I am just getting over superstitious. Some people keep on fighting with chimeras (lions) of their own minds and always think that when i post, i insult. I appologize.


.
 
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Kandahar said:
Don't trust him to do what? Are you saying you DID trust the Soviets?
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Yes and No at least with the former USSR you knew what you where getting with Mr. Putin ewho know what your getting. I'll take the good old days of the Cold War over this new BS or New Cold ar as some of the Media Folks like to throw around.

As for the so-called Arms Cut I'll believe it when Congress ratifies the Treaty since they have to before any Weapons can be cut up(Oh Snap forgot about that one huh Mr. Obama).
 
Scorpion89 said:
Yes and No at least with the former USSR you knew what you where getting with Mr. Putin ewho know what your getting. I'll take the good old days of the Cold War over this new BS or New Cold ar as some of the Media Folks like to throw around.
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I don't see any reason to believe that Putin or Medvedev are less trustworthy than the Soviets. They haven't really double-crossed us on anything important that I can think of.

And I think the idea of a "New Cold War" is fundamentally incorrect. Russia's power is a fraction of the USSR's power, it doesn't have any ideology to spread other than pro-Russian policies, and neither we nor they necessarily regard each other as enemies. They're more rivals than enemies.

Scorpion89 said:
As for the so-called Arms Cut I'll believe it when Congress ratifies the Treaty since they have to before any Weapons can be cut up(Oh Snap forgot about that one huh Mr. Obama).
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I don't think the outcome of that is really in doubt. Congress will certainly ratify it, probably by a very large (maybe unanimous?) margin.
 
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Kandahar said:
And I think the idea of a "New Cold War" is fundamentally incorrect. Russia's power is a fraction of the USSR's power, it doesn't have any ideology to spread other than pro-Russian policies, and neither we nor they necessarily regard each other as enemies. They're more rivals than enemies.
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'Russia is a part of European culture. Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy.”

Vladimir Putin quotes
 
Kandahar said:
I don't think the outcome of that is really in doubt. Congress will certainly ratify it, probably by a very large (maybe unanimous?) margin.
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I don't there are allot of Blue Dog Dems and Hawk Dem who are against some of these cuts.Beside it won't make it to either the Sen. or House til after the Mid Term elections and I really don't think the Dems are keep control of both side nor do I think they will have the vote to keep it outof sub-committee.
 
Scorpion89 said:
I don't there are allot of Blue Dog Dems and Hawk Dem who are against some of these cuts.Beside it won't make it to either the Sen. or House til after the Mid Term elections and I really don't think the Dems are keep control of both side nor do I think they will have the vote to keep it outof sub-committee.
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I dunno...I don't think I've ever heard a politician criticize a reduction in our nuclear stockpiles since JFK. I realize there might be a few who are against it, but this seems to have pretty broad bipartisan support. John McCain favors it, Colin Powell favors it, Ronald Reagan favored it, etc. Reducing our nuclear stockpiles doesn't really give up anything, as we still have plenty of nukes to obliterate Russia (or anyone else) many times over. I just can't imagine there are very many politicians who are willing to go on the Sunday talk shows and say that we need those extra 500 nukes.
 
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Kandahar said:
I



I'm trying to figure out what you think Obama "traded for a speech" or how Putin "took full advantage," since you agree that both our token gesture and theirs were meaningless. Did I miss Obama's announcement that we were withdrawing from NATO? Was it on during the MJ funeral? :confused:
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Says it better then I will-

Our Foreign Policy Neophyte
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- The signing ceremony in Moscow was a grand affair. For Barack Obama, foreign policy neophyte and "reset" man, the arms reduction agreement had a Kissingerian air. A fine feather in his cap. And our president likes his plumage.

Unfortunately for the United States, the country Obama represents, the prospective treaty is useless at best, detrimental at worst.

Useless because the level of offensive nuclear weaponry, the subject of the U.S.-Russia "Joint Understanding," is an irrelevance. We could today terminate all such negotiations, invite the Russians to build as many warheads as they want, and profitably watch them spend themselves into penury, as did their Soviet predecessors, stockpiling weapons that do nothing more than, as Churchill put it, make the rubble bounce.

Obama says that his START will be a great boon, setting an example to enable us to better pressure North Korea and Iran to give up their nuclear programs. That a man of Obama's intelligence can believe such nonsense is beyond comprehension. There is not a shred of evidence that cuts by the great powers -- the INF treaty, START I, the Treaty of Moscow (2002) -- induced the curtailment of anyone's programs. Moammar Gaddafi gave up his nukes the week we pulled Saddam Hussein out of his spider hole. No treaty involved. The very notion that Kim Jong Il or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will suddenly abjure nukes because of yet another U.S.-Russian treaty is comical.

The pursuit of such an offensive weapons treaty could nonetheless be detrimental to us. Why? Because Obama's hunger for a diplomatic success, such as it is, allowed the Russians to exact a price: linkage between offensive and defensive nuclear weapons.

This is important for Russia because of the huge American technological advantage in defensive weaponry. We can reliably shoot down an intercontinental ballistic missile. They cannot. And since defensive weaponry will be the decisive strategic factor of the 21st century, Russia has striven mightily for a quarter-century to halt its development. Gorbachev tried to swindle Reagan out of the Strategic Defense Initiative at Reykjavik in 1986. Reagan refused. As did his successors -- Bush I, Clinton, Bush II.

Obama, who seeks to banish nuclear weapons entirely, has little use for such prosaic contrivances. First, the Obama budget actually cuts spending on missile defense, at a time when federal spending is a riot of extravagance and trillion-dollar deficits. Then comes the "pause" (as Russia's president appreciatively noted) in the planned establishment of a missile shield in Eastern Europe. And now the "Joint Understanding" commits us to a new treaty that includes "a provision on the interrelationship of strategic offensive and strategic defensive arms." Obama further said that the East European missile shield "will be the subject of extensive negotiations" between the United States and Russia.

Obama doesn't even seem to understand the ramifications of this concession. Poland and the Czech Republic thought they were regaining their independence when they joined NATO under the protection of the United States. They now see that the shield negotiated with us and subsequently ratified by all of NATO is in limbo. Russia and America will first have to "come to terms" on the issue, explained President Dmitry Medvedev. This is precisely the kind of compromised sovereignty that Russia wants to impose on its ex-Soviet colonies -- and that U.S. presidents of both parties for the last 20 years have resisted.

Resistance, however, is not part of Obama's repertoire. Hence his eagerness for arcane negotiations over MIRV'd missiles, the perfect distraction from the major issue between the two countries: Vladimir Putin's unapologetic and relentless drive to restore Moscow's hegemony over the sovereign states that used to be Soviet satrapies.

That -- not nukes -- is the chief cause of the friction between the U.S. and Russia. You wouldn't know it to hear Obama in Moscow pledging to halt the "drift" in U.S.-Russian relations. Drift? The decline in relations came from Putin's desire to undo what he considers "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century -- the collapse of the Soviet empire. Hence his squeezing Ukraine's energy supplies. His overt threats against Poland and the Czech Republic for daring to make sovereign agreements with the United States. And finally, less than a year ago, his invading a small neighbor, detaching and then effectively annexing two of Georgia's provinces to Mother Russia.

That's the cause of the collapse of our relations. Not drift, but aggression. Or, as the reset man referred to it with such delicacy in his Kremlin news conference: "our disagreements on Georgia's borders."
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RealClearPolitics - Our Foreign Policy Neophyte
 
Triad said:
Says it better then I will-

<Article, cut to avoid a long quote :)>
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What'd have been the right thing for Obama to do, though? I don't think you're wrong - the article as some really good points - but I'm just wondering what specifically Obama should have done? Doesn't establishing democratic dies BEFORE fighting aggression with more aggression help more than the other way around?
 
He should definately not have put on the table a strategic defense system in exchange for a strategic weapons system.


Especially when Russia has nothing like our ABM technology.


Putin got him not only to agree to ut that n the table but pause deployment of it.
Obama should have said the USA will agree to arms reduction of mutual weapons systems...we will not trade our advanced ABM system for Russian ICBM's.


Poland, Czech Republic, ROmania, Hungary..are al a lil nervous now..they expectes this system they negotiated with the USA on it for a year..and now Obam is basically putting it up for sale to their primary threat Russia.
Ukrainian Leaders probably ulcers now.

What else will he sell?
..he seems open to more doesn't he.
How about the Crimea for a singing ceremony and a speech?


Reagan had talks with the Soviets while he was working openly to destroy them. He agreed to arms cuts etc..but he as Bush as Clinton as Bush made clear whenever the ABM stuff came up that No we are not trading that for that..period.

Obama has changed that to oh we might trade it.

Putin wins.
 
Triad said:
He should definately not have put on the table a strategic defense system in exchange for a strategic weapons system.
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First of all, he didn't "concede" anything. No deal has been made.

Second of all, if you aren't even willing to contemplate NEGOTIATING over American policies that concern Russia, why would you expect Russia to negotiate over THEIR policies that concern the United States?
 
Triad said:
Czech Republic, ROmania,..are al a lil nervous now..they expectes this system they negotiated with the USA on it for a year..and now Obam is basically putting it up for sale to their primary threat Russia.
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2:02 – 4:47 ->



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATeKIufRnhc&feature=related"]YouTube - Czech President - Idealistic Socialism is Impossible[/ame]


Triad said:
Ukrainian Leaders probably ulcers now.
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For sure they do:

Presidential rating of Yuschenko [Ukrainian President] are no more than 5.2%, according to poll
Presidential rating of Yuschenko no more than 5.2%, according to poll


However, Mr. Putin does elicit confidence in the world’s two largest nations, China (64%) and India (65%). The public in Ukraine, where the current West-leaning President Yushchenko has had tense relations with the Kremlin, also has confidence in Putin (57 %); notably, more Ukrainians express confidence Putin than in President Obama (35%). Russians themselves have confidence in their Prime Minister by a very large majority (82%)

.UN Secretary-General receives second highest rating in poll assessing world leaders-United Nations in Ukraine

Kandahar said:
Second of all, if you aren't even willing to contemplate NEGOTIATING over American policies that concern Russia, why would you expect Russia to negotiate over THEIR policies that concern the United States?
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And there are some more questions, - why Americans are completely blocked from the views of Russians? Why the iron curtain is imposed over Americans, but only insinuations and one sided views are poured on Americans brains from all sides? Why doesn't one go ahead and listen to another side and argue with it? And why Russia which is quite an important country has to be used as a token in partisan politics? Are Americans so immature that they cannot face facts and decide on their own?


Go ahead, argue against Russians, but not strawmen:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfA5XfxQOPw"]YouTube - US hampering Russian peace efforts -- Putin[/ame]

1 against 5:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFMQz6AN3B0&feature=channel"]YouTube - Putin answers questions from Time magazine[/ame]
 
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Now remind everyone that your Russian and support Russian ambitions in Eastern Europe and the former Russian Empire.


Just so people know your intent and outlook.
...
Anyway...

First video does not discredit what I said. Czech Republic is seeing a year long negotiations put on the table by Obama..they can't be happy about that at all.

My remark about the Ukraine is in regards to the expansionistic intent of Russia towards their territory..not a meaningless popularity contest of polls.


//////////


Khandahar--

First of all, he didn't "concede" anything. No deal has been made.
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He made a deal. He also put the ABM system up to negotiation.

Second of all, if you aren't even willing to contemplate NEGOTIATING over American policies that concern Russia, why would you expect Russia to negotiate over THEIR policies that concern the United States?
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USA does not need to negotiate our ABM systems.
It is not required of the USA to give out "presents" to talk...Obama needs to learn that.


anyway...

Expect Obama to be pushed by Putin from now on..Putin has his number and plays this game like a pro.

I have nothing but respect for Putin..he is perhaps one of the greatest European leaders since Adolf Hitler and now he has his Neville Chamberlain.
 
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Triad said:
Now remind everyone that your Russian .
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Now remind everyone that you are black…

Now remind everyone that you are Jew…

Now remind everyone that you are Chinese..
Now remind everyone that you are Irish Catholic…

You are like Tashah, not even a bit of shame or conscious.
Triad said:
and support Russian ambitions in Eastern Europe and the former Russian Empire..
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Would you be so kind to quote me doing that – in my post above or in any of my posts. And would be so kind to show facts of Russian ambitions in Eastern Europe and the former Russian Empire and absence of thereof on the part of the US – far, far away from the US? If I support anything it is getting rid off A$$holes in the US where I live, I don’t care about the other side of the globe.


Triad said:
Just so people know your intent and outlook. .
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I guess you along with GyGgt are informing the public that I am a KGB spy. I guess in your and GyGgt’s view Obama is a Kenyan spy, and only you are pure Americans… a special higher race here in the US…. not even a bit of shame or conscious. .



Triad said:
Anyway...

First video does not discredit what I said. Czech Republic is seeing a year long negotiations put on the table by Obama..they can't be happy about that at all.

My remark about the Ukraine is in regards to the expansionistic intent of Russia towards their territory..not a meaningless popularity contest of polls. .
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I guess I was wrong about immaturity of Americans. I wouldn’t even know how to comment on somebody saying that black is white. Get this: the expansionistic intent of the US supports the Ukrainian President. Ukrainians do not support their President; he has 5.2% of approval. In spite of all the Western propaganda against Russia 57% of Ukrainians support the Russian president. Yet in the Orwellian world it is Russia which expands and brings dictatorship, but not the US which expands and props the failed anti-Ukrainian regime in Ukraine... Who cares what Ukrainians think…



In the Orwellian world Chech president talks about Obama. Get this – Chech president does not talk about Obama he talks about Putin and Russia. He points to the relentless bi-partisan propaganda insinuating that Russia dropped bombs on Georgia and he does not sleep well because of Russia. He himself says – it is an absurd, I sleep well, Russia does not bother me. Yet the propaganda says – it does not matter what you, Czech people or Ukrainian people or Russian people say and vote for, you don’t sleep well and we will keep on propping democracy in Ukraine and twisting your arms to make sure that you’d say that you don’t sleep well.

I guess, Russia cannot avoid a war or a series of wars against the US expansion. But you know what? As Russia was kicking Bush’s behind, it will be kicking Obama’s each and every time at each and every corner. Nothing has changed from the last time and nothing is going to change. For me as for an American it is humiliating to watch, all I have to remember that personally I have done all best to avoid the humiliation, I’ve tried even knowing that a$$holes cannot be reasoned, they have no shame not even conscious. I’ve tried.
 
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