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Thread: Robert McNamara, ex-defense secretary, dies

  1. #31
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    Re: McNamara dies

    He wasn't a villian, he was a f**king idiot... its because of politicians like him the military had to fight with one arm tied behind their backs... granted LBJ and Nixon didn't help a damn thing, but didn't make it any better.

    The prob with these assh*les is the same as that asshat Rummy: when the people in uniform talk about fighting douchebags in suits need to STFU...

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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmrabe View Post
    He wasn't a villian, he was a f**king idiot... its because of politicians like him the military had to fight with one arm tied behind their backs... granted LBJ and Nixon didn't help a damn thing, but didn't make it any better.

    The prob with these assh*les is the same as that asshat Rummy: when the people in uniform talk about fighting douchebags in suits need to STFU...
    That's the one thing that the right and left can agree on. If it hadn't been for McNamara forcing our troops to fight with crappy tactics, we could have won Vietnam alot sooner and more decisively than we did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #33
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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's the one thing that the right and left can agree on. If it hadn't been for McNamara forcing our troops to fight with crappy tactics, we could have won Vietnam alot sooner and more decisively than we did.
    We won Vietnam?
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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Moderator's Warning:
    Robert McNamara, ex-defense secretary, diesLink added to OP
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  5. #35
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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    We won Vietnam?
    You bet we did. We destroyed the Viet Cong in 68 and fought the North Vietnamese Army to a stand still, forcing The North to go to the bargaining table and sign a treaty ending the war. They subsequently violated that treaty and slaughtered a million people while the world watched, but we forced them to sign a treaty just the same. The war being ended by The Treaty of Paris is the reason I say that we could have won a more decisive victory, had we used better tactics.

    Vietnam speaks volumes as to the military prowess of the American fighting man. We put our troops into impossible terrain, fighting a completely unknown enemy, with junk tactics and ROE's and he still defeated the enemy. Vietnam has certainly be denied it's proper place in American history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You bet we did. We destroyed the Viet Cong in 68 and fought the North Vietnamese Army to a stand still, forcing The North to go to the bargaining table and sign a treaty ending the war. They subsequently violated that treaty and slaughtered a million people while the world watched, but we forced them to sign a treaty just the same. The war being ended by The Treaty of Paris is the reason I say that we could have won a more decisive victory, had we used better tactics.

    Vietnam speaks volumes as to the military prowess of the American fighting man. We put our troops into impossible terrain, fighting a completely unknown enemy, with junk tactics and ROE's and he still defeated the enemy. Vietnam has certainly be denied it's proper place in American history.
    Then why is Vietnam a communist country?
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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Then why is Vietnam a communist country?
    Because we didn't end the war as we should have.

    1) We didn't destroy the Communist forces.

    And,

    2) We didn't keep our word to support South Vietnam, should the North invade after US forces left the country.

    The South was able to fight off the NVA and was doing a good job, until they literally ran out of gas and ammo. Our promise to make sure that didn't happen wasn't kept. I believe, from the research I've done, that the ARVN could have been successful against the NVA, had we conducted massive airlifts of weapons, ammo, food and fuel.

    Instead, we did nothing, while The North took down South Vietnam, killing one million South Vietnamese civilians. Pol Pot was freed up to takeover Cambodia, killing a million+ and there were over 100 thousand Hmong tribesmen killed in Laos by the Communist forces there. Remember the whole, "Yellow Rain", thing in the late 70's? Yeah, that was the Pathet Lao Communists using mustard gas to wipe out the Hmong.

    To this day, the Hmong are still being murdered by the Communists in Laos and Vietnam.

    Laos, Vietnam Troops Slaughter Lao, Hmong: Over 6500 Face Death | Soldier of Fortune
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because we didn't end the war as we should have.

    1) We didn't destroy the Communist forces.

    And,

    2) We didn't keep our word to support South Vietnam, should the North invade after US forces left the country.

    The South was able to fight off the NVA and was doing a good job, until they literally ran out of gas and ammo. Our promise to make sure that didn't happen wasn't kept. I believe, from the research I've done, that the ARVN could have been successful against the NVA, had we conducted massive airlifts of weapons, ammo, food and fuel.

    Instead, we did nothing, while The North took down South Vietnam, killing one million South Vietnamese civilians. Pol Pot was freed up to takeover Cambodia, killing a million+ and there were over 100 thousand Hmong tribesmen killed in Laos by the Communist forces there. Remember the whole, "Yellow Rain", thing in the late 70's? Yeah, that was the Pathet Lao Communists using mustard gas to wipe out the Hmong.

    To this day, the Hmong are still being murdered by the Communists in Laos and Vietnam.

    Laos, Vietnam Troops Slaughter Lao, Hmong: Over 6500 Face Death | Soldier of Fortune
    If our goal was not achieved, and the opponents goal was achieved, how could we have won?
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  9. #39
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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Who was it that came up with the ink blot strategy again? If we had practiced that, treated it like the anti-guerilla operation it was instead of a conventional war, we might have won.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  10. #40
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    Re: McNamara dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If our goal was not achieved, and the opponents goal was achieved, how could we have won?
    We defeated the enemy on the battlefield. While our political goal was botched, because of the violation of a leagal and binding treaty and no one bothered to enforce that treaty, as promised; we did achieve our objective on the battlefield and that was to force the enemy into submission. It went wrong when we didn't force them into submission, enough. This is what happens when wars are fought on the political front instead of the battle front.

    The South Vietnamese lost to The North, because we didn't give them the support we promised. US forces were never defeated by the Communists in Southeast Asia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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