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Thread: Robert McNamara, ex-defense secretary, dies

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Ahh you do bring up good points then

    But, keep in mind the huge paradox that would've occured if no American intervention had occured... Since that is such a huge thing to say, there is really no telling what would've occured otherwise except that the North Vietnamese would've been able to conquer the south much more easily and with much less casualities. The Chinese and Soviet Union would see American resolve as weak and would not be wary of their expansionist policies.
    Had there not been US intervention, there's no telling how far the slaughter would have went.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    The Chinese and Soviet Union would see American resolve as weak and would not be wary of their expansionist policies.
    What Chinese expansionist policies would those be?

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    What Chinese expansionist policies would those be?
    I'm talking about general Communist expansionist policies, especially in East Asia. But if you want to talk about the Chinese reds specifically then:

    Chinese intervention in Korea - Hutchinson encyclopedia article about Chinese intervention in Korea

    CIA DOCUMENT OF CHINESE FORCES IN VIETNAM-1966

    Chinese support of the Khmer rouge

    “Best turn it into a bigger war…I’m afraid you really ought to send more troops to the South…Don’t be afraid of U.S. intervention, at most it’s no worse than having another Korean War. The Chinese army is prepared, and if America takes the risk of attacking North Vietnam, the Chinese army will march in at once. Our troops want a war now.”
    -- Mao speaking to the North Vietnamese in 1964
    Last edited by Tubub; 07-08-09 at 12:45 AM.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    What Chinese expansionist policies would those be?
    China expands labor probe of McDonald’s, KFC


    "SHANGHAI, China - U.S. fast-food chains McDonald’s and KFC said Thursday they are working with Chinese authorities to resolve allegations that the companies underpay their part-time workers, as a labor probe expands to other cities. "

    They are expanding the fast food market quite nicely.
    Thank you

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    China expands labor probe of McDonald’s, KFC


    "SHANGHAI, China - U.S. fast-food chains McDonald’s and KFC said Thursday they are working with Chinese authorities to resolve allegations that the companies underpay their part-time workers, as a labor probe expands to other cities. "

    They are expanding the fast food market quite nicely.
    You clearly have 0 idea what we're talking about here... This is about the 50s and 60s, you know, the Vietnam era?


    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    I'm talking about general Communist expansionist policies, especially in East Asia. But if you want to talk about the Chinese reds specifically then:

    Chinese intervention in Korea - Hutchinson encyclopedia article about Chinese intervention in Korea

    CIA DOCUMENT OF CHINESE COMMUNIST FORCES 1966

    Chinese support of the Khmer rouge



    -- Mao speaking to the North Vietnamese in 1964
    Korea and Vietnam were in response to presence by the UN and the US, respectively. If that is expansionist, then so would the Monroe Doctrine.

    As to Taiwan, that's an ongoing civil war.

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Korea and Vietnam were in response to presence by the UN and the US, respectively. If that is expansionist, then so would the Monroe Doctrine.

    As to Taiwan, that's an ongoing civil war.
    dude, please do not just come in the middle of a discussion... We are talking about Communist expansion during the 50s and 60s, which would include the Soviet Union and China which both supported Third World Communist revolutions and new Second World governments. I am not talking about China today... Read the thread and a few of the posts man, seriously

    As for the Monroe Doctrine, I don't mind freedom and democracy expanding.
    Last edited by Tubub; 07-08-09 at 12:49 AM.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    dude, please do not just come in the middle of a discussion... We are talking about Communist expansion during the 50s and 60s, which would include the Soviet Union and China which both supported Third World Communist revolutions and new Second World governments. I am not talking about China today... Read the thread and a few of the posts man, seriously

    As for the Monroe Doctrine, I don't mind freedom and democracy expanding.
    I will post as I see fit, "dude," and if you don't like it, I believe this board has an ignore function that you are more than free to use. So kindly shove it, "man."

    If you can't argue your points, simply say so, m'kay?

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    You clearly have 0 idea what we're talking about here... This is about the 50s and 60s, you know, the Vietnam era?


    Joke little rooster. Put your comb down.

    US foreign policy since 1947 was sheer containment and was fine until we got all up in nato again in 49(Have we seen something like this before?).

    Between the Marshall plan and the truman doctrine almost 12.5 billion dollars was dumped into Europe to rebuild and prevent communism. 1950 dollars= 1/9th of todays dollars so it was a big dump.


    Stalin blockaded Berlin and Truman dropped food and supplies in Berlin until Stalin realized the allies wont capitulate and lifted the blockade.


    In response the warsaw pact of 55 was formed to agree to kick all our asses if we got too in their face.

    1950-53 the Korean conflict occurred in another effort at containment.

    The total line difference was 10 parallels.

    It could be argued that North Korea attacked South Korea in the first place because the USA Korean aid bill was defeated in the senate by a single vote that same January.

    The rhetoric of the leader of the time (Rhee) helped not at all.


    So yeah as soon as the US lowers its guard the enemies do not lower theirs. They take advantage of the opportunity to screw us.

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We are in for a hellish time coming and soon.
    Thank you

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    Re: Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I will post as I see fit, "dude," and if you don't like it, I believe this board has an ignore function that you are more than free to use. So kindly shove it, "man."

    If you can't argue your points, simply say so, m'kay?
    If your gonna bring something up that doesn't have to do with the argument, please say so, m'kay. And, oh, you can definetely shove it up yours. Not kindly.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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