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Scores killed in China protests

tlmorg02

tlmorg02

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BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Scores killed in China protests

Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say.

Several hundred people were arrested after a protest, in the city of Urumqi on Sunday, turned violent.

Beijing says Uighurs went on the rampage but one exiled Uighur leader says police fired on students.

The protest was reportedly prompted by a deadly fight between Uighurs and Han Chinese in southern China last month.

The BBC's Chris Hogg in Shanghai says this is one of the most serious clashes between the authorities and demonstrators in China since Tiananmen Square in 1989.
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First Iran, now China. Freedom is indeed on the march, if only it could knock down the wall of tyranny. Thoughts?
 
It doesn't seem like China is going anywhere anytime soon. That government has no sympathy for their people, and too many people are oblivious and indifferent to politics to care.
 
phattonez said:
It doesn't seem like China is going anywhere anytime soon. That government has no sympathy for their people, and too many people are oblivious and indifferent to politics to care.
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China has one-up on Iran, in that they have what is called "The Great Firewall of China." They can virtually block any unwanted twittering or internet information being dessiminated. Add to the mix, that the Uighur people are more closely related to Arabs, than Hun Chinese, thus most of the country would not give it a second thought.
 
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Western values contain the belief that all human beings naturally yearn for liberty, because they are endowed by their Creator so. I don't know if these are related, but anytime people strive to increase their liberty it's a good thing.
 
The Chinese government would, I expect, be willing to slaughter millions to maintain stability.

My understanding of the overall Chinese culture, is that it places a far, far higher value on stability than ours.

And I've never accepted the proposition that liberty is a universal human yearning. It should be, but if it were history would be very different indeed.
 
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Oftencold said:
The Chinese government would, I expect, be willing to slaughter millions to maintain stability.

My understanding of the overall Chinese culture, is that it places a far, far higher value on stability than ours.

And I've never accepted the proposition that liberty is a universal human yearning. It should be, but if it were history would be very different indeed.
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The Chinese people very much want liberty. However, their culture is heavily influenced by the philosophy of Confuscius, who claimed that Datong or the grand harmony was much better for the people of the country. Datong is what has led to the Chinese people accepting socialism for so many decades.

However, as capitalism raises the living conditions of the Chinese, liberty is becoming a stronger cry in the voices of the student population. Most scholars agree that sooner or later freedom will find it's way to China. The means to that freedom is the topic of hot debate.
 
American said:
Western values contain the belief that all human beings naturally yearn for liberty, because they are endowed by their Creator so. I don't know if these are related, but anytime people strive to increase their liberty it's a good thing.
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Aye, but I hold little hope for China currently. It's ennobling to see some of the Chinese people rise up, and if they were ever to work together there's nothing the government could do to stop a revolution. But I think too much as been indoctrinated about the State and I fear the government is well too willing to engage in treason and tyranny against its people. I doubt there will be the things the likes we are seeing in Iran in China anytime soon, regardless of how desperately they need it.
 
When are these people going to learn:

You don't f**k with China...

They made a wall you can see from space using the blood and bones of their own people as mortar...

You do NOT f**k with these people...

Westerners and their "I am so damn important" egocentric ideology cannot understand that the group ALWAYS trumps the indidividual when you have always, and for thousans of RECORDED years of history had millions of people...

When you always have so many people on tap, you can lose a few and not sweat it.

Thats ingrained in their culture, you can either comprehend they think differently than you and have a different value sytem, or you can cry about it as you sit on your computer that was made of 97% parts made in China...

Iran has a MUCH better chance at democracy than China, if they can throw off the theocracy that is...
 
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It's almost as if all the world stage is choreographed more than anyone could just imagine. And all the world leader are secretly best friends and sharing notes on population control. Like the world is some sick experiment on what will work and what won't.
 
I don't think this protest will have a big influence on Chine, because it's a minority group Uighur who is protesting. So it can just be put away as "extremist separatist that wants to tore apart China" by the Chinese goverment. But it's intersting in a bigger picture with more and more protest amongst the Chinese people out in the provinces both amongst the Chinese mayority as well the minority groups. That it's still a huge gap between the more and more well off middleclass in the big cities and the huge number of poor out in the provinces. Their many provinces still havn't had seen much of development. The problem with Tibet and maybe also their the Uighur, is that the mayority Chinese get the good education and jobs, that at the same time is them who useally run and owns the companies.
 
tlmorg02 said:
First Iran, now China. Freedom is indeed on the march, if only it could knock down the wall of tyranny. Thoughts?
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China turning democratic? No chance.
This is a minority group who have been in trouble with China before.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
It's almost as if all the world stage is choreographed more than anyone could just imagine. And all the world leader are secretly best friends and sharing notes on population control. Like the world is some sick experiment on what will work and what won't.
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You should write a book.
 
Laila said:
China turning democratic? No chance.
This is a minority group who have been in trouble with China before.
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You will see. China cannot escape the transition to democracy as they further embrace capitalism. It will pull them ever into that direction. It may be a much harsher regime, that has quite the iron grip, but it is inevitable if they proceed down the path they currently are on.
 
Oftencold said:
And I've never accepted the proposition that liberty is a universal human yearning.
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No.

The Messiah got elected, didn't he?

So, what is a natural human yearning for many is the urge to put slave chains on their nieghbor's neck to match their own.
 
tlmorg02 said:
You will see. China cannot escape the transition to democracy as they further embrace capitalism.
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Sure they can.

It's not like they're going to embrace real capitalism, which requires real freedom.

No, they're going to embrace whatever it is they need to embrace to keep the political elites in power, just like in America there's a fascist Messiah stealing formerly capitalist companies and the mobs cheer him on.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Sure they can.

It's not like they're going to embrace real capitalism, which requires real freedom.

No, they're going to embrace whatever it is they need to embrace to keep the political elites in power, just like in America there's a fascist Messiah stealing formerly capitalist companies and the mobs cheer him on.
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China has a truer capitalist economy than the U.S. There are a handful of state ran companies left, but even these are being slowly sold off to private investors. There is zero government regulation on industry, other than the new quality inspectors to prevent melanin-type incidents from repeating.
 
tlmorg02 said:
China has a truer capitalist economy than the U.S. There are a handful of state ran companies left, but even these are being slowly sold off to private investors. There is zero government regulation on industry, other than the new quality inspectors to prevent melanin-type incidents from repeating.
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Well the melanin and lead incidents, along with the public outcry against the rampant pollution (when the Han start rumbling, they listen) show exactly why the oh-so vaunted "free market" needs oversight/consumer protection.

Those who espouse a true free market have no cultural context of the 1800's, snake oil salesmen, child labor, super monopoly's, and what happens when you allow the moral ambiguity of hiding behind a faceless corporation.
 
tlmorg02 said:
China has a truer capitalist economy than the U.S.
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:shock:

What possible criteria can you base this on?

There are a handful of state ran companies left
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There are still a lot of state owned companies in China!

Regarding the actual violence, it seems more like unfortunate ethnic tension which escalated after a few unfounded rumours. This stuff about oppressed people fighting for freedom against the evil government probably comes from the exiled leaders of minority groups spinning this tension for their own purposes.
 
Liz Peeps said:
No time to read the article: what were they protesting? What were they seeking?
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Being second class citizens in an area they were indigenous (at least for a long time if not originally) to that is now overrun with Han Chinese... basically Tibet Jr. with less western sympathy cause they are Islamic and not something cool like Buddhism...
 
So what exactly are the protesters protesting about? Wasn't it for Muslim rights?

But I can agree with these protesters being arrested, they should not have been killed though. Large numbers of them were arrested though, because they began protesting violently. They deny this, but they were flipping buses and police cars, the US would have put them in jail to. They were not put in jail for religious reasons, but because they were rioting.

I love the advancement of freedom and liberty, but I wanted to clear that up. No one should have died, but the Chinese government was just to put them in jail, but they should not be harmed. Peaceful protests should be allowed.
 
Isn't this an ethnic issue involving Muslims? If anything could go toe-to-toe with the fanatacism of the Chinese military it would for certain, be the muslim resolve to Allah.
 
There was a clash between the Uigher population, which are Muslim and the migrant Hun Chinese a few months back over an alledge rape of a Muslim girl. After the clash, no investigation was conducted into the charges. The Muslim population, which are indeed the indigenous and for a long time, autonomous region of China, felt that they are being treated as second class citizens to the newly arrived Huns, by the Bejing government.

Their protest was getting out-of-hand as they destroyed property and vehicles. The government police, however, escalated things by opening fire without warning.
 
tlmorg02 said:
There was a clash between the Uigher population, which are Muslim and the migrant Hun Chinese a few months back over an alledge rape of a Muslim girl. After the clash, no investigation was conducted into the charges. The Muslim population, which are indeed the indigenous and for a long time, autonomous region of China, felt that they are being treated as second class citizens to the newly arrived Huns, by the Bejing government.

Their protest was getting out-of-hand as they destroyed property and vehicles. The government police, however, escalated things by opening fire without warning.
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I am will sorry but what you said is totally oppsite. I don't know where you got this information or what is your purpose? no Muslim girl involved in this issue. it's rumor of rape of two han girls caused confilict between han and Uigher.
 
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