• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bill banning forced identity-chip implants clears House

TheNextEra said:
RightinNYC liberal? :rofl

Thanks for the laugh. Don't you have black helicopters to look for that are trying to get you?
Click to expand...

This is not a personal attack but meant only to inform the uninitiated ina few things I deem of the utmost importance.
No one should ever feel obligated to follow the misguided bevy of non thinking individuals who like to poke fun at things they do not or can not understand whether it is from lack of intellectual ability, or education in the facts. Those who like to poke fun at people who have claimed to see "Black Helicopters" fail to take into consideration that with the exception of the Marine and Navy choppers nearly if not all Army choppers including Black Hawks and Apaches are painted a dark green and when seen in the night sky appear to be black whether they have lights on or off. This makes them harder to see. What they are up to when seen is up for speculation. They might be on some clandestine operation or just a training mission and their present misunderstood.
As for the potential for misuse of tracking devises on the public the potential for abuse is real and goes against the freedoms we currently enjoy. These devises could eventually interfere with ones personal choices of how we live what we buy and who we choose to deal with on a daily basis. With the current trends toward more intrusion into our lives from a Government and individuals in it that clearly believe they know what's best for you the threat becomes more obvious almost by the day.
We were warned by President Eisenhower to beware of the industrial military complex and by Sir Winston Churchill of the Nanny state both were sound warnings we need to pay closer attention to in today's world than ever before as threats from outside forces are being used to erode our freedoms and intrude on our personal lives ostensibly for our own security and well being.
Remember what Benjamin Franklin said: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".
Those words like the others I mentioned are things we as Americans must never forget and pay close attention to every day.
 
Last edited:
Councilman said:
This is not a personal attack but meant only to inform the uninitiated ina few things I deem of the utmost importance.
No one should ever feel obligated to follow the misguided bevy of non thinking individuals who like to poke fun at things they do not or can not understand whether it is from lack of intellectual ability, or education in the facts. Those who like to poke fun at people who have claimed to see "Black Helicopters" fail to take into consideration that with the exception of the Marine and Navy choppers nearly if not all Army choppers including Black Hawks and Apaches are painted a dark green and when seen in the night sky appear to be black whether they have lights on or off. This makes them harder to see. What they are up to when seen is up for speculation. They might be on some clandestine operation or just a training mission and their present misunderstood.
As for the potential for misuse of tracking devises on the public the potential for abuse is real and goes against the freedoms we currently enjoy. These devises could eventually interfere with ones personal choices of how we live what we buy and who we choose to deal with on a daily basis. With the current trends toward more intrusion into our lives from a Government and individuals in it that clearly believe they know what's best for you the threat becomes more obvious almost by the day.
We were warned by President Eisenhower to beware of the industrial military complex and by Sir Winston Churchill of the Nanny state both were sound warnings we need to pay closer attention to in today's world than ever before as threats from outside forces are being used to erode our freedoms and intrude on our personal lives ostensibly for our own security and well being.
Remember what Benjamin Franklin said: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".
Those words like the others I mentioned are things we as Americans must never forget and pay close attention to every day.
Click to expand...

Again, because it obviously needs to be repeated, there is a difference in being suspicious (which I don't fault people for being) and downright paranoid.

If the government were going to install tracking chips on people, they wouldn't even mention it. They would just do it secretly. A bill doesn't stop it. Ever heard of black ops? Do you think congress approves ALL black ops?

This bill is being done off of paranoia.
 
Last edited:
TheNextEra said:
Again, because it obviously needs to be repeated, there is a difference in being suspicious (which I don't fault people for being) and downright paranoid.

If the government were going to install tracking chips on people, they wouldn't even mention it. They would just do it secretly. A bill doesn't stop it. Ever heard of black ops? Do you think congress approves ALL black ops?

This bill is being done off of paranoia.
Click to expand...


There are those who believe that the idea goes something like this:

Introduce things like Verichip.

Tout the wonderful uses, and get some people to accept it voluntarily. (already happening).

Use a crisis to require by law all citizens to have an ID chip implanted that can be tracked, maybe required for financial transactions, etc. There's the "force" part, out in the open and not covert at all.


Is it paranoia? Perhaps...but given trends in government toward ever greater intrusiveness and authoritarianism, I'm pleased that at least some states are taking a principled stand that forced implantation must never be tolerated.
 
jamesrage said:
Are you for or against identity chips being forcefully implanted?If you are against it then why give a **** about the reason? Why should you and your fellow liberals mock those who wish ban such things?
Click to expand...

I am also against space aliens taking over the world, but I don't find it necessary to legislate against it.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, because it obviously needs to be repeated, there is a difference in being suspicious (which I don't fault people for being) and downright paranoid.

If the government were going to install tracking chips on people, they wouldn't even mention it. They would just do it secretly. A bill doesn't stop it. Ever heard of black ops? Do you think congress approves ALL black ops?

This bill is being done off of paranoia.
Click to expand...

Jumping to the conclusion that an observation of a clear trend is paranoia is a mistake and needless defensive maneuver to avoid the subject and ignore the facts.
The Congress does not approve all black ops but they have oversight powers and the control the purse strings of every operation, either before or after the fact. It would be impossible to keep the widespread use of this technology secret for any length of time. To believe that is to believe in conspiracies and to think they do this type of operation in a wide spread operation would be showing a paranoid tendency.
This is the type of situation where the solution has been dreamed up and the problem will be created to make implementation easy with little or no resistance because of a perceived benefit that may sound good but will in truth be false and hide the true reasons behind it.
The more we know about and discuss this type of subject the harder it is to pull it off against an unsuspecting public who might other wise believe the lies they are being told. Wide spread evidence of the citizenry being lied to and believing the lies is the current multitude of nonsense being told about how the Cap and Trade foolishness is going to save the environment when the truth is it will have no appreciable effect what ever but will cause untold misery and hardship in needless increased costs to the working class in this country as it is doing in others.
 
Goshin said:
Is it paranoia? Perhaps...but given trends in government toward ever greater intrusiveness and authoritarianism, I'm pleased that at least some states are taking a principled stand that forced implantation must never be tolerated.
Click to expand...

Again you guys are entitled to believe what you want, but I call that paranoia to the fullest.

Have fun looking for the big bad government coming to getcha :rofl
 
TheNextEra said:
Again you guys are entitled to believe what you want, but I call that paranoia to the fullest.

Have fun looking for the big bad government coming to getcha :rofl
Click to expand...

Personally, while I do not believe that the government is out to get us, I also do not believe that it has our best interests in mind.
 
Councilman said:
Jumping to the conclusion that an observation of a clear trend is paranoia is a mistake and needless defensive maneuver to avoid the subject and ignore the facts.
The Congress does not approve all black ops but they have oversight powers and the control the purse strings of every operation, either before or after the fact. It would be impossible to keep the widespread use of this technology secret for any length of time. To believe that is to believe in conspiracies and to think they do this type of operation in a wide spread operation would be showing a paranoid tendency.
This is the type of situation where the solution has been dreamed up and the problem will be created to make implementation easy with little or no resistance because of a perceived benefit that may sound good but will in truth be false and hide the true reasons behind it.
The more we know about and discuss this type of subject the harder it is to pull it off against an unsuspecting public who might other wise believe the lies they are being told. Wide spread evidence of the citizenry being lied to and believing the lies is the current multitude of nonsense being told about how the Cap and Trade foolishness is going to save the environment when the truth is it will have no appreciable effect what ever but will cause untold misery and hardship in needless increased costs to the working class in this country as it is doing in others.
Click to expand...

I find the Patriot Act II (something that is real and has been passed) more worrisome than some fictitious situation where the government would implant a chip in people.
 
The Mark said:
Personally, while I do not believe that the government is out to get us, I also do not believe that it has our best interests in mind.
Click to expand...

Which again addresses my point that it is ok to be suspicious, but that is different than being paranoid.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again you guys are entitled to believe what you want, but I call that paranoia to the fullest.

Have fun looking for the big bad government coming to getcha :rofl
Click to expand...




I wonder if that's what many German Jews thought right up until the "showers" started filling the room with poison gas? "Don't be paranoid, things like that can't happen here..."
 
Goshin said:
I wonder if that's what many German Jews thought right up until the "showers" started filling the room with poison gas? "Don't be paranoid, things like that can't happen here..."
Click to expand...

So now you are comparing America to the Nazis? :rofl

It doesn't get anymore paranoid than this folks.
 
The Mark said:
Thus my second statement.
Click to expand...

I promise I won't derail this thread any further with an argument on the qualities of good humor, but if a comment is witty I will be the first to acknowledge it. I don't care who is making it or who it is directed at. I've laughed at liberal jokes directed at me many times - this one just kind of kerplunked at my feet. Not funny.

I respect humor more than I do partisan politics.

/end derail.
 
TheNextEra said:
So now you are comparing America to the Nazis? :rofl

It doesn't get anymore paranoid than this folks.
Click to expand...



Nonsense. I didn't compare America to the Nazi's, I was making a point about the "it can't happen here" mindset.

I have read many accounts by survivors of the Nazi death camps who talked about a sense of disbelief that paralyzed them. There was a sense that "This is modern-day, Twentieth-century Germany, a civilized state... such things just can't happen here!"


America isn't remotely comparable to Nazi Germany... at this point in history. We need to be vigilant against government authoritarianism if we want to maintain our freedom and keep our government from getting out of control, is my point.

At one extreme are those who believe every conspiracy theory out there, and blame the US government for everything. I am not one of those people.

At the other extreme is those who believe "it can't happen here" and assume the government won't ever abuse its power and doesn't need to be watched and restrained... are you one of those people?
 
I'm holding out for actual neural interface implants. the ID chips are cute, but remain a foreign, separate device that is merely encased in flesh.

Future generations of cybernetic implants will actually interact with biological processes, most notably those of the central nervous system.

The applications for the economy and the general functioning of society are incalculable. Workers could actually receive part of their wages in the form of manufactured emotional states generated by licensed delivery of cortical stimulation.

All marriages can be made perfectly successful, all children happy by the use of similar technique.

Sexual preference, indeed the presence, absence or degree of any sexual behavior will be regulated by beneficent government oversight.

As the technology grows, even such petty subjective perceptions as "ugliness" will be removed by software/neuralware upgrades.

There will be no ugly people, no ugliness at all in the world, because everyone will receive upgrade patches to perceive almost everything as beautiful.

Health will improve dramatically, and therefore health care costs will plummet. Everyone can be encouraged to maintain a proper regimen of exercise diet and avoidance of health hazards once the pain and pleasure centers are properly integrated into a proper network.


It is easy to think further ahead still, to the interface of the electronic with the highest cortical functions. While no doubt still many years away, a time can be anticipated when incorrect thinking is completely eliminated by the use of cybernetic cognitive oversight.

When that happy day comes, no one will be dissatisfied with any aspect of their lives. No troublesome thoughts will disturb the perfect happiness of all people.

At last the world will be one.

I can't wait!
 
Last edited:
TheNextEra said:
I find the Patriot Act II (something that is real and has been passed) more worrisome than some fictitious situation where the government would implant a chip in people.
Click to expand...

I would caution that no one choose one subject to be leary of over another. The Patriot Acts I & II both have potential consequences that come with them that put our continued liberties is doubt or at least in question. I believe as was said by another great American Thomas Jefferson, and I paraphrase. "It is the duty of every good citizen to use all the opportunities which occur to him to preserve the Nation and doing that will require unremitting vigilance."
I don't think he was referring to one subject but to all potential threats real or perceived until the nature and magnitude of the threats are known and put to rest. Once again this should not be partisan in nature and relies on an understanding by each individual of our freedoms and Constitution as they and it was intended.
While pointing no fingers at any individual few people have a true grasp or understanding of the documents that brought this Nation into being and that have preserved it to this point when that knowledge is most imperative in today's world.
Vigilance in pursuit the Nations continued survival is not paranoia and should be embraced by all patriots and never scorned because of partisan politics or short sightedness.
 
Last edited:
For normal American citizens this chip implant situation is a horror. Yet how about for prisoners? Would that be a benefit if we tagged prisoners so we can track them ? How about people who had commited a pedophia crime? Would it be great if we tag the pedophiles so that if they survive prison we can track them.

Tagging prisoners and pedophiles should be an exception to the rules.

What do ohers think about that ?
 
Councilman said:
Vigilance in pursuit the Nations continued survival is not paranoia and should be embraced by all patriots and never scorned because of partisan politics or short sightedness.
Click to expand...

Well then, we should have congress pass a law that states the U.S. will not surrender to Space invaders as well. And we should have a bill that states the government will not be allowed to produce black holes on private property.

Again, there is a difference between suspicion or vigilance and paranoia.

BTW increasing your font size does not make your point more valid.
 
Last edited:
TheNextEra said:
Well then, we should have congress pass a law that states the U.S. will not surrender to Space invaders as well. And we should have a bill that states the government will not be allowed to produce black holes on private property.

Again, there is a difference between suspicion or vigilance and paranoia.
Click to expand...


Apples and oranges. Space invaders are not known to exist. Our ability to produce black holes artificially is improbable.

ID implants do exist, right now.

Point failed.
 
jamesrage said:
Are you for or against identity chips being forcefully implanted?If you are against it then why give a **** about the reason? Why should you and your fellow liberals mock those who wish ban such things?
Click to expand...

I am against it in most cases. I am also opposed to the government rounding up all red-haired people and burning them as witches.

However, if you came up to me and asked me to sign a petition to make it illegal for the government to round up red-haired people and burn them as witches, I would laugh in your face and tell you to get off my lawn. Same applies to this.

Goshin said:
I wonder if that's what many German Jews thought right up until the "showers" started filling the room with poison gas? "Don't be paranoid, things like that can't happen here..."
Click to expand...

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Thanks, I was really getting a little concerned that nobody had referenced the Nazi's yet in this thread.

OH NOES IF WE DON'T BAN THIS THE GUBBERNMENT WILL TAKE ARE GUNS AND KILL US WITH THERE MINDS!!!111
 
Goshin said:
Apples and oranges. Space invaders are not known to exist. Our ability to produce black holes artificially is improbable.

ID implants do exist, right now.

Point failed.
Click to expand...

Fine then, let's get back to reality. Are you familiar with the constitution? There is already a ban against unwarranted searches. Why would a implant be allowed to all citizens? That would be against privacy laws already in effect.

Again, this is nothing but paranoia for America.

Even in your WORST CASE SCENARIO, if our government would do such a thing, they would have to ignore the Constitution completely and if that happens, no bill from congress would save us anyway.

This was a waste of time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom