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Thread: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

  1. #171
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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Wow. Saddam really ****ed the White House on this one.
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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Indeed, Saddam's trial wasn't really an American interest, but wars aren't being justified by interests alone.
    Yes they are, and any other kind of war is either ill concieved or pure treason.


    Also, I believe that spreading democracy is one of the biggest American interests there are.
    Why? I agree it would be good, but it doesnt override other interests.

    What should have been done, in your opinion, for it to have been "properly handled"?
    1. Not rush into the war, time was on our side. As Sun Tzu said patience is a virtue of the succesful General. We could have waited to get more nations on board, wait for the UN to fail in its inept glory, 1 year wouldnt have changed anything but put us into a better position to strike.

    2. More forces, especially after the fall of Saddam to secure the Nation. We took out too many troops to fast before we established security.

    3. Not forgetting about Afganistan that one year delay of action in Iraq could have put us in a far superior position there, perhaps even capture Bin Laden.

    4. Not disband the Iraqi military.

    5. Leave some Baat officials so as to avoid chaos in the bureacracy structure.

    Some ideas.


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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Yes they are, and any other kind of war is either ill concieved or pure treason.
    Pardon?
    I haven't said that interests shouldn't be the reason behind a war, but that interests don't justify a war.
    Those are two different things.
    Why? I agree it would be good, but it doesnt override other interests.
    The same reason why the USSR worked so hard to spread communism.
    If they share your ideology, they share your values; and if they share your values, there's a good chance for them to side with you in any future conflict, or simply on the international ground.
    1. Not rush into the war, time was on our side. As Sun Tzu said patience is a virtue of the succesful General. We could have waited to get more nations on board, wait for the UN to fail in its inept glory, 1 year wouldnt have changed anything but put us into a better position to strike.
    You don't know how waiting a year would effect the area.
    It might have done better and it might have not.
    I believe the people at the top who take the decisions had an access to the best intelligence resources, unlike us.
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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    You don't know how waiting a year would effect the area.
    It might have done better and it might have not.
    I believe the people at the top who take the decisions had an access to the best intelligence resources, unlike us.
    Yes, they had information from Iraqi exiles who wanted Hussein dead ASAP. That is completely credible, despite the fact that we had no one in the ground in Iraq. We also had incompetent leaders, as in they throw us into a war, then leave a small amount of our troops to watch the ground.

    Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld didn't know what they were getting us into when thye attacked Hussein, and if they had thought about it for even a few months more, while we were invading and smashing Afghanistan, everything would have been better off. We would have been able to put more boots on the ground where Bin Laden was, we could have had Afghanistan nearly secured by now, and then we could have gone into Iraq.
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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Pardon?
    I haven't said that interests shouldn't be the reason behind a war, but that interests don't justify a war.
    It really depends what those interests are.

    The same reason why the USSR worked so hard to spread communism.
    If they share your ideology, they share your values; and if they share your values, there's a good chance for them to side with you in any future conflict, or simply on the international ground.
    Im yet to see evidence of this. Your summing up the heat between the USSR and the US purely on communism/capitalism. They where both superpowers in a region they both shared an interest in, which caused the friction. Otherwise, you cannot proove this. You also cannot say the US doesnt have better interests then spreading democracy, such as combating terrorism and ending war crimes and violence everywhere.

    You don't know how waiting a year would effect the area.
    It might have done better and it might have not.
    Yeah, its a risk to wait. It was an even bigger risk to jump in there the way we all, as NATO, did.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 07-06-09 at 02:58 PM.
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  6. #176
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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Pardon?
    I haven't said that interests shouldn't be the reason behind a war, but that interests don't justify a war.
    What does justify war?

    Those are two different things.
    The same reason why the USSR worked so hard to spread communism.
    If they share your ideology, they share your values; and if they share your values, there's a good chance for them to side with you in any future conflict, or simply on the international ground.
    I agree with you to an extent, but sometimes other interests prevent us from spreading our idealogy. For instance if we pushed Democracy on Saudia Arabia we would loose vital geopolitical position in the region, and the Democracy could bring a Taliban style goverment into power. Democracy is only as valid as the circumstances on the ground dictate. Hitler was Democratically elected dont forget.

    You don't know how waiting a year would effect the area.
    It might have done better and it might have not.
    It couldnt have gone worse thats for sure. There was no risk to delay the war, Saddam possed no direct threat to the US or our interests no more then in 2000 1999 1998 1997 etc.

    I believe the people at the top who take the decisions had an access to the best intelligence resources, unlike us.
    Actions prove they were either cherry picking their intelligence, or were just purely incompetent.


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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Im yet to see evidence of this. Your summing up the heat between the USSR and the US purely on communism/capitalism. They where both superpowers in a region they both shared an interest in, which caused the friction.
    I never referred to the cold war in my post, I gave an example for a nation who had the interest of spreading its ideology.
    Please refrain from changing topics.
    You also cannot say the US doesnt have better interests then spreading democracy, such as combating terrorism and ending war crimes and violence everywhere.
    I never said that the US has no better interests.
    I clearly used the term "one of the biggest interests".
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    What does justify war?
    For the international community?
    BS-morals that would be accepted by the common European pacifist, apparently.
    I agree with you to an extent, but sometimes other interests prevent us from spreading our idealogy. For instance if we pushed Democracy on Saudia Arabia we would loose vital geopolitical position in the region, and the Democracy could bring a Taliban style goverment into power. Democracy is only as valid as the circumstances on the ground dictate. Hitler was Democratically elected dont forget.
    I kinda got tired from people who declare elections as the ultimate proof for Democracy.
    Democracy is far bigger than mere elections.
    Iran isn't a Democracy, Lebanon isn't a Democracy, the Gaza strip is not a Democracy.
    It couldnt have gone worse thats for sure..
    It can always go worse.
    Saddam possed no direct threat to the US or our interests no more then in 2000 1999 1998 1997 etc.
    Actually he did.
    There was no knowledge of his nation's nuclear capabilities, even though it happened to be a bluff, they haven't known it back then.(I assume)
    Actions prove they were either cherry picking their intelligence, or were just purely incompetent.
    Actions prove nothing, results do.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    For the international community?
    No for a particular nation.


    It can always go worse.
    I dont see how.


    Actually he did.
    How so?

    There was no knowledge of his nation's nuclear capabilities, even though it happened to be a bluff, they haven't known it back then.(I assume)
    Actions prove nothing, results do
    They knew he didnt have a Nuclear program, the WMD story was a made up excuse. Or in better lingua they embellished to get a reason to get their way.


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    Re: Saddam: 'I Lied About WMD In Fear Of Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    No for a particular nation.
    I was obviously speaking about a justification for the international community.
    I dont see how.
    They never do.
    How so?
    I just explained it one line below the part you quoted.
    They knew he didnt have a Nuclear program, the WMD story was a made up excuse. Or in better lingua they embellished to get a reason to get their way.
    That is your own opinion.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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