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Thread: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

  1. #21
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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Becaus your post was so full of fawning of the current president and scorn for the former, I just found your swooning rather humorous.
    Despite your curious affection for Victorian romance novels, I exhibited neither "fawning" nor "swooning". Are you incapable of rational discussion or do you believe that insult constitutes debate?

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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    If my comment was merely a reversal of yours, than perhaps you should acknowledge the puerility present in your own posts.

    Right, your pseudo-intellectualism is in full bloom.



    No, I didn't see that section as a mandate that he had issued, nor was Western Christianity or secularism listed as a reason for the initiation of AQ aggression. Even if it was, I suspect that he'd find far fewer individuals willing to aid him in the task of forcible conversion of the inhabitants of Western countries to Islam, both because of the lack of feasibility of that approach and because of the aforementioned fact that polling indicates a higher degree of opposition to U.S. policy than U.S. principles of religious pluralism or governmental secularism. As noted, he didn't attack Sweden.

    If you are choosing to remain ignorant of the contents of the letter I linked, there is no point in your pseudo-intellectual circle jerk.




    No, you haven't "proved" anything. There are three factors that you've apparently chosen to desperately ignore at all costs:

    1. The plane hijackings and crashings were acts of mass murder, but alone, they did not pose a threat to widespread U.S. civil rights or liberties as a whole. It's thus disingenuous to pretend that the mere right to speak and express sentiments freely was threatened by those actions.

    How many should die before we view it as a threat? Perhaps they should start with your family first this time around.



    2. There is little evidence that OBL or Al Qaeda were strongly opposed to civil rights or liberties in the U.S. alone, or that their interest in attacking U.S. targets was based on ardent opposition to such rights and liberties. Rather, the apparent reality is that they were opposed to U.S. government Middle Eastern policy, most significantly financial aid to the Israeli government and direct military presence and interventionism in other parts of the Middle East. Even if this were not the case, the populations that serve as their primary bases of recruitment indicate opposition to U.S. government foreign policy rather than domestic "principles."

    Again, I am not interested in a pseudo-intelletual circle jerk, if you refuse to acknowledge the contents of the letter and the links I provided, there is no point.



    3. Even if the first two points were untrue (and there's no compelling reason to believe they are), senior elements of the Taliban opposed the interventionism of Al Qaeda, and Mullah Omar was known to be a foe of the strategy of attacking the U.S. The forcible removal from governmental office and continued conflict with the Taliban thus cannot be conceptualized as a necessary defense of civil rights and liberties in the U.S. (especially in light of the fact that AQ themselves poses no substantial threat to those), though it is arguably justifiable on the grounds of the domestic repression of the Taliban.

    yet he refused to hand him over. He chose poorly.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Despite your curious affection for Victorian romance novels, I exhibited neither "fawning" nor "swooning". Are you incapable of rational discussion or do you believe that insult constitutes debate?



    Oh my bad, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #24
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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Right, your pseudo-intellectualism is in full bloom.
    I do hope that the Victorian literature you consult isn't homoerotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    If you are choosing to remain ignorant of the contents of the letter I linked, there is no point in your pseudo-intellectual circle jerk.
    There is no "ignorance" of the contents of the letter. There's simply awareness that he wished to accelerate the attacks twice, both in response to what he considered "provocative" actions by Ariel Sharon, indicating his greater opposition to policy than domestic "principles." I wouldn't claim that he didn't oppose Western "decadence," but his opposition would not have been characterized by such a violent backlash had he not regarded the existence of financial and military support as an imposition of that decadence. As has been previously noted, he did not choose to attack the significantly more "decadent" Sweden or the Netherlands, for instance.

    As mentioned, this reality is certainly confirmed by opinion polling on the matter. Zogby International's Impressions of America 2004: A Six-Nation Survey (go to page 90), summarizes this well.

    When asked whether their overall attitude toward the US was shaped by their feelings about American values or US policies, in all six countries, an overwhelming percentage of respondents indicated that policy played a more important role.
    So it's certainly not a matter of mere opposition to "decadent" values, since foreign policy obviously occupies the far stronger role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    How many should die before we view it as a threat? Perhaps they should start with your family first this time around.
    We could probably regard an Al Qaeda ability to conquer and exert control over any major U.S. states or even municipalities and regions within states as a threat to widespread civil rights and liberties within the U.S., but they possess no such ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Again, I am not interested in a pseudo-intelletual circle jerk, if you refuse to acknowledge the contents of the letter and the links I provided, there is no point.
    Your "analysis" is based on selective incorporation and overall ignorance about the motivations of OBL, Al Qaeda, and the populations that serve as ample recruiting bases for them. If his opposition was merely to secularism and "decadence," he would have focused his resources on Scandinavia or Western Europe. However, you wish to ignore their opposition to specific policies because it would undermine your interventionist sentiments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    yet he refused to hand him over. He chose poorly.
    That does not validate the assessment that the current conflict with the Taliban in their role as military guerrillas is based on the protection or defense of strongly threatened U.S. civil rights and liberties.

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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    The article doesn't say how many enemy kills were scored. If the Marines hold to the norm of a 20 to 1 kill ratio, then they probably smoked 30+ Tallies. I would say that's a good day.

    Semper Fi and Happy hunting!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Hey Danarhea, here is some updates from CNN on the whole thing:
    Marines targeting Taliban in Afghan push - CNN.com

    I think the marines are doing a wonderful job. The strategy of pressuring the Taliban from both sides, that is with Pakistan hitting them as well, we can make-up the ground lost by diverting troops to Iraq. Semper Fi!!!!

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    Re: Marines suffer first casualties in Afghan campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Becaus your post was so full of fawning of the current president and scorn for the former, I just found your swooning rather humorous.
    Not to mention that I seem to be missing the military expertise displayed in Obama's resume.

    Playing the board game "Risk" as a child doesn't count.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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