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Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

As the thread degenerates into short sentences of derisive commentary let me just add this. All of us in the military have a lot of rules about what we can say to whom about sexuality. No-one but the homos want to be able to run around saying "I'm a homo". All we're asking is that they abide the same sexual harassment rules as everyone else!

I agree with this part. If they're sexually harassing people, by all means punish them.

LowRevs said:
For instance if a male hetero is walking around saying "I'm a hetero" over and over again in the womens barracks, he will be pounding the pavement looking for a new job. If he says to a fellow male soldier "You're a homo", or even, "Are you a homo?", he could suffer the same fate. Just shut up! Is that too much to ask.

I disagree with this. It's not so much walking around saying "I'm a homo" over and over again. But heterosexuals are free to talk about their girlfriends with their buddies without anyone raising a stink about it; their girlfriends can visit them, and they can kiss their girlfriends in front of their buddies without losing their jobs. Why shouldn't homosexuals be able to have the same freedom?
 
Once, white soldiers made a lot of noises about having to shower with black soldiers. Now, military culture expects you to learn to deal with people of other races. If you have racist tenancies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt. Oddly, this works better these days then claiming to be insane or drug use if you want out of the military.

Sexual assault and harassment are large issues in military culture. You cannot make it through a year of service without many mandatory briefings on the subject. For the most part these briefings are a joke. Such events still happen in giant numbers. I can lay a very personnel testimony to this a a medic - I have seen more rape kits get used then you frankly want to know about. I have also seen most of them swept under the rug, and known of a lot more that have gone unreported.

Someone always knows. Bases in theater are a small place; if it happens, it happens because it is permitted.

In case you are missing it, I am talking about heterosexual rape by one soldier of another soldier in a WAR ZONE.

I have seen one homosexual rape come through my doors. I am a little lost as to why one is any more ugly then the other. Maybe the issue is rape and what ever is wrong with military culture that makes it permissible, regardless of regulation and mandatory awareness programs.

If nothing else, it goes to show that an armed society is not necessarily a polite society. Ever read about a soldier finding their rapist later and shooting them with the firearm and ammo we are all required to have over there?

Speaking as a heterosexual soldier who has served with and even showered with "gay" soldiers, I think people who spend a lot of time thinking about this subject are a bunch of closet cases. Please find a more important issue then imagining being uncomfortable in a shower because "gays might be there". I promise, if you have ever showered in a public shower "gays were there", and no regulations are going to change this.

Look, what is more important, that someone is ON YOUR SIDE and OTHER PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU or your prejudice?

Darwin says suck up your prejudice and worry about the mission. If you can't do that, I would prefer you stay home. Failing that, please tell me so I can do my best to make sure you are as far from me as possible.

Whatever...the below quote ended whatever argument you where trying to use blacks for in regards to this issue.


If you have racist tenancies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt


"If you have homosexual tendencies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt"
(Don't Ask-Don't Tell)


This guy not only failed to adapt he went out of his way to become an activist.

Most likely his discharge will be 'Under Other Than Honorable Conditions'. If he's unlucky it will be a Dishonorable.
He threw out his honorable chances by dishonoring the uniform he wore.
 
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As the thread degenerates into short sentences of derisive commentary let me just add this. All of us in the military have a lot of rules about what we can say to whom about sexuality. No-one but the homos want to be able to run around saying "I'm a homo". All we're asking is that they abide the same sexual harassment rules as everyone else! For instance if a male hetero is walking around saying "I'm a hetero" over and over again in the womens barracks, he will be pounding the pavement looking for a new job. If he says to a fellow male soldier "You're a homo", or even, "Are you a homo?", he could suffer the same fate. Just shut up! Is that too much to ask.

It's exactly this kind of bigotry and idiocy that needs to be eradicated from our military.

:confused:
 
"If you have homosexual tendencies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt"
(Don't Ask-Don't Tell)

Ahh so it's ok for Heterosexuals to discuss what goes on in the bedroom in front of others, but it is bad if homosexuals do it? I call bull**** there.

When heterosexuals in the military can keep their traps shut about what goes on in the bedroom, or not show affection for their significant others publicly, then you might have a case for gays to do the same. Until then it is a clear double standard that should be addressed by allowing gays to serve openly.
 
I've got a little non-PC answer for ya. How about this. Sodomy is disgusting and I don't want to serve with a man who would perform it on another man. I don't trust his character.
 
I've got a little non-PC answer for ya. How about this. Sodomy is disgusting and I don't want to serve with a man who would perform it on another man. I don't trust his character.

And I've got a little rational answer for you. I don't give a flying **** what you think about what two consenting adults in private do because it has no bearing on how he performs his job in public. And here's another little non-PC answer for you...if you think about two men sodomizing each other so deeply that you can't perform your job function, then the damage is with you and you should probably make a point of telling your girlfriend and see what she thinks about your obsession with men sodomizing each other.
 
And I've got a little rational answer for you. I don't give a flying **** what you think about what two consenting adults in private do because it has no bearing on how he performs his job in public. And here's another little non-PC answer for you...if you think about two men sodomizing each other so deeply that you can't perform your job function, then the damage is with you and you should probably make a point of telling your girlfriend and see what she thinks about your obsession with men sodomizing each other.
Actually, my wife thinks grown men sodomizing each other is nasty as well, just as most women do. Think about it. Two women kissing turns a lot of people on, even females, but even most females agree that two males kissing is disgusting.
 
Ahh so it's ok for Heterosexuals to discuss what goes on in the bedroom in front of others, but it is bad if homosexuals do it? I call bull**** there.

When heterosexuals in the military can keep their traps shut about what goes on in the bedroom, or not show affection for their significant others publicly, then you might have a case for gays to do the same. Until then it is a clear double standard that should be addressed by allowing gays to serve openly.

This-

Whatever...the below quote ended whatever argument you where trying to use blacks for in regards to this issue.


If you have racist tenancies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt


"If you have homosexual tendencies, it is expected that you will keep them to yourself and if you fail at this, you have failed to adapt"
(Don't Ask-Don't Tell)


This guy not only failed to adapt he went out of his way to become an activist.

Most likely his discharge will be 'Under Other Than Honorable Conditions'. If he's unlucky it will be a Dishonorable.
He threw out his honorable chances by dishonoring the uniform he wore.

Is what I said.
 
Actually, my wife thinks grown men sodomizing each other is nasty as well, just as most women do. Think about it. Two women kissing turns a lot of people on, even females, but even most females agree that two males kissing is disgusting.

And the price of tea in China is today?
 
I've got a little non-PC answer for ya. How about this. Sodomy is disgusting and I don't want to serve with a man who would perform it on another man. I don't trust his character.

Well at least you don't cloak your ignorance in any high-minded rhetoric like most bigots do. That's pretty much what every argument against gays in the military boils down to.
 
Actually, my wife thinks grown men sodomizing each other is nasty as well, just as most women do. Think about it. Two women kissing turns a lot of people on, even females, but even most females agree that two males kissing is disgusting.

That's all well and good. Now why would you be obsessing over that to the point of not being able to perform your job?
 
I don't trust his character.

You don't trust a person's character because of what two consenting adults do in the bedroom????

That is the most ridiculous and one of the most bigoted thing I've ever heard on the whole gays serving in the military argument.
 
Actually, my wife thinks grown men sodomizing each other is nasty as well, just as most women do. Think about it. Two women kissing turns a lot of people on, even females, but even most females agree that two males kissing is disgusting.

So what? How does ANY of that prevent you from doing your job?

If someone is at the point that they cannot do their job because they are thinking about what two male adults do in the bedroom, they would either be a closet homosexual or an idiot. An idiot that shouldn't be in the military in the first place I might add.
 
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So what? How does ANY of that prevent you from doing your job?

If someone is at the point that they cannot do their job because they are thinking about what two male adults do in the bedroom, they would either be a closet homosexual or an idiot. An idiot that shouldn't be in the military in the first place I might add.
The military is supposed to represent the best among us. I don't believe that grown men who sodomize each other fit into that category. And no, I am not an idiot. At least Uncle Sam doesn't think so. I am in a job that requires a minimum GT(aptitude) score of 125 to even enter, which places me in the top 3% of all the armed forces.

Just because someone suscribes to traditional morals does not make them stupid.

Also, if you think that anyone with my opinion shouldn't be in the armed forces, then good luck defending yourself. There are many more like me.
 
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The military is supposed to represent the best among us. I don't believe that grown men who sodomize each other fit into that category.

What if there's no sodomy involved? What if someone is a gay virgin...do you still think he should be kicked out of the army? Why?

What if it's a guy who brags to his buddies about ****ing his girlfriend in the ass? Should he be kicked out for sodomy? :roll:

G.I. Joe said:
And no, I am not an idiot. At least Uncle Sam doesn't think so. I am in a job that requires a minimum GT(aptitude) score of 125 to even enter, which places me in the top 3% of all the armed forces.

Just because someone suscribes to traditional morals does not make them an idiot.

No, but saying something retarded like "I don't want to serve next to gays because sodomy is disgusting" DOES make you an idiot.
 
Allow me to introduce a novel concept to you guys. The Amry is NOT a free society. We have rules all over the place about what is expected of a soldier, i.e. hair length, drug use, etc. The Army has guidelines put forth that are meant to convey what type of image it wants each individual soldier to exude. In the eyes of the Army, and the majority of the population of the U.S., homosexuality does not represent it's values. If the powers that be decide that gays should not serve, then it is their perogative to do so. Get over it.
 
The military is supposed to represent the best among us. I don't believe that grown men who sodomize each other fit into that category. And no, I am not an idiot. At least Uncle Sam doesn't think so. I am in a job that requires a minimum GT(aptitude) score of 125 to even enter, which places me in the top 3% of all the armed forces.
And you somehow thinking gays are second class citizens that are not the best is ridiculous considering MANY gays have served int he military HONORABLY.

Just because someone suscribes to traditional morals does not make them stupid.

No someone who subscribes to gays as being second class citizens is an idiot.

Also, if you think that anyone with my opinion shouldn't be in the armed forces, then good luck defending yourself. There are many more like me.

As long as you shut your mouth about gays while in uniform and don't treat them as second class citizens publicly, than you are doing the job.
 
In the eyes of the Army, and the majority of the population of the U.S., homosexuality does not represent it's values. If the powers that be decide that gays should not serve, then it is their perogative to do so. Get over it.

If that were the case they wouldn't be allowed to serve even under DADT policy. Obviously the public and the military do NOT agree with you.
 
Obviously the public and the military do NOT agree with you.

Lol...The public doesn't agree with me? Hell, you couldn't defeat Prop 8 in the most liberal state in the country. I'm sorry democracy isn't convenient for you in this case, but that's just the way it is.

And if you think that DADT essentially says that homosexually does not go against Army values, then explain why the second you display or even speak about homosexual behavior you get discharged.
 
Allow me to introduce a novel concept to you guys. The Amry is NOT a free society. We have rules all over the place about what is expected of a soldier, i.e. hair length, drug use, etc. The Army has guidelines put forth that are meant to convey what type of image it wants each individual soldier to exude.

Wrong. The military answers to the commander-in-chief, who is elected by the American people. The policy on gays in the military is dictated through federal law, which is passed by Congress, which is elected by the American people.

G.I. Joe said:
In the eyes of the Army, and the majority of the population of the U.S., homosexuality does not represent it's values.

Wrong. You're way out in right-field on this one. 75% of Americans believe that gays should be allowed to serve openly...including 64% of self-described conservatives, 64% of self-described Republicans, and 62% of self-described evangelical Protestants. Even 50% of military veterans support allowing gays to serve openly.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1066a5GaysinMilitary.pdf

G.I. Joe said:
If the powers that be decide that gays should not serve, then it is their perogative to do so. Get over it.

And if the powers that be decide that they SHOULD be allowed to serve openly, will you stop bitching about it and "get over it"?
 
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Actually, my wife thinks grown men sodomizing each other is nasty as well, just as most women do. Think about it. Two women kissing turns a lot of people on, even females, but even most females agree that two males kissing is disgusting.


Where are you getting your information? Links?

As a woman let me tell you that watching people kiss, regardless of who they are, isn't really much of a turn on. Who gets turned on by seeing anyone kiss?

And I would only find it disgusting if the two people were making out hot and heavy in a public place, wouldn't matter if they were man/man, woman/woman or man/woman.
 
I've got a little non-PC answer for ya. How about this. Sodomy is disgusting and I don't want to serve with a man who would perform it on another man. I don't trust his character.

Would you trust the "character" of a man who cheated on his wife or girlfriend?

Seriously, if someone cannot keep an oath made before God to the mother of his children, does that make you doubt their character to the point where you do not want to serve with them?

You are in the military, right? Do you vocally object to working with those guys and gals? Make sure to count every single divorcee while you are at it.

Check yourself. You need to very careful before you start throwing words like character around.
 
Would you trust the "character" of a man who cheated on his wife or girlfriend?

Seriously, if someone cannot keep an oath made before God to the mother of his children, does that make you doubt their character to the point where you do not want to serve with them?

You are in the military, right? Do you vocally object to working with those guys and gals? Make sure to count every single divorcee while you are at it.

Check yourself. You need to very careful before you start throwing words like character around.
Well pardon me if I don't view sexual deviants as people worthy of wearing the uniform.
 
Where are you getting your information? Links?

As a woman let me tell you that watching people kiss, regardless of who they are, isn't really much of a turn on. Who gets turned on by seeing anyone kiss?

And I would only find it disgusting if the two people were making out hot and heavy in a public place, wouldn't matter if they were man/man, woman/woman or man/woman.
Dude come on. Just ask the women in your life. I know all the ones I've ever talked to think it's gross. If you're gonna try to make an argument that straight sexual relations are just as nasty as sodomy between two men, well, good luck with that one.
 
Well pardon me if I don't view sexual deviants as people worthy of wearing the uniform.

Well like opinions everyone has them and I don't think you are worthy of wearing the uniform.
 
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