• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

apdst said:
YOU, sir, called me a liar for not presenting the documentation that you required to be convinced, then called me a liar, twice.


How 'bout that shower sharing documentation? Got that? No, huh?
Click to expand...

I have never called you a lair for not presenting documentation. I have told you that anecdotal evidence is less strong than sourced evidence. However, in the case of what Alex has said, I have confirmed that it matches my experience. The navy started building hotel style barracks sometime before I joined in 1987. These barracks are not segregated. I saw(and stayed in) similar style barracks on an Air Force base(Nellis), so they have them too.
 
Redress said:
I have never called you a lair for not presenting documentation. I have told you that anecdotal evidence is less strong than sourced evidence.
Click to expand...

That's untrue, sir.
 
rivrrat said:
What does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

You want to speak with authority on the subject, so therefore you must give yourself credibility as to that authority. You made statements of factual from; so you need to either post documentation supporting those facts, or a resume proving to use that your experience supports those facts. Just you saying it, don't mean jack.
 
apdst said:
You want to speak with authority on the subject, so therefore you must give yourself credibility as to that authority. You made statements of factual from; so you need to either post documentation supporting those facts, or a resume proving to use that your experience supports those facts. Just you saying it, don't mean jack.
Click to expand...

Excuse me? Serving in the military makes one an authority on everyone elses opinions and everything else in the world?

So, in order to have an opinion on whether or not I think it's okay to shower with men, I have to have served in the military? The fact that I know, for a fact, that I have never had a problem showering with, using the bathroom with, sleeping with, or changing clothes in front of men isn't enough for me to say that I don't have a problem with it? :lol:

In order to state the FACT that women aren't "fragile little flowers", I need a resume of experience supporting that fact? (that I actually have, but I don't need it to know the obvious)

And in order to state the FACT that gay men /= women, I need some sort of 'credibility as to that authority'?

Are you ****ing serious? No really... are you ****ing serious?

Here's what you do, hon... Go look down a gay man's pants. Notice the penis. Then go look down a woman's pants, and notice the distinct lack of one. Neither of us need any sort of resume to know that gay men are not women.

So, until you're able to somehow prove that gay men are actually 'fragile little flowers' women, then just you saying it don't mean jack.
 
Last edited:
rivrrat said:
Excuse me? Serving in the military makes one an authority on everyone elses opinions and everything else in the world?

So, in order to have an opinion on whether or not I think it's okay to shower with men, I have to have served in the military? The fact that I know, for a fact, that I have never had a problem showering with, using the bathroom with, sleeping with, or changing clothes in front of men isn't enough for me to say that I don't have a problem with it? :lol:

In order to state the FACT that women aren't "fragile little flowers", I need a resume of experience supporting that fact? (that I actually have, but I don't need it to know the obvious)

And in order to state the FACT that gay men /= women, I need some sort of 'credibility as to that authority'?

Are you ****ing serious? No really... are you ****ing serious?

Here's what you do, hon... Go look down a gay man's pants. Notice the penis. Then go look down a woman's pants, and notice the distinct lack of one. Neither of us need any sort of resume to know that gay men are not women.
Click to expand...

No, but to speak of fact, you must have something to back your facts up with. Do you?

Do want to deal with reality, or with you're own expereience? they're two different things, ya know.
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
No, but to speak of fact, you must have something to back your facts up with. Do you?
Click to expand...

Okay, let me just get this straight for clarification here.

You want "something to back up" the fact that gay men are not women?
 
rivrrat said:
Okay, let me just get this straight for clarification here.

You want "something to back up" the fact that gay men are not women?
Click to expand...

You should inspect them to ensure they are not actually women. Could be a fun job for you.
 
Redress said:
You should inspect them to ensure they are not actually women. Could be a fun job for you.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not sure if I have the authoriti or correct credentials to differentiate a man from a woman.

Perhaps there's a class on it somewhere? Where we get to feel boobies and measure penises all day long? :mrgreen:
 
rivrrat said:
Well, I'm not sure if I have the authoriti or correct credentials to differentiate a man from a woman.

Perhaps there's a class on it somewhere? Where we get to feel boobies and measure penises all day long? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Sign me up for that class!
 
rivrrat said:
What does that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Nothing. It's the fall back stance he takes for a failing argument and getting his ass handed to him for being obtuse and for lying and having it pointed out.

And on another note... APTDS: NO ONE ****ING CARES ABOUT THIS SHOWERING DOCUMENTATION BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION TO ANYONE BUT YOU.
 
apdst said:
You want to speak with authority on the subject, so therefore you must give yourself credibility as to that authority. You made statements of factual from; so you need to either post documentation supporting those facts, or a resume proving to use that your experience supports those facts. Just you saying it, don't mean jack.
Click to expand...

So when someone asks for proof from you, they are being argumentative and are a part of the "got proof" crowd, but its' okay for you to do it to others?
 
jallman said:
Nothing. It's the fall back stance he takes for a failing argument and getting his ass handed to him for being obtuse and for lying and having it pointed out.

And on another note... APTDS: NO ONE ****ING CARES ABOUT THIS SHOWERING DOCUMENTATION BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION TO ANYONE BUT YOU.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to support any of the claims that have been made on this thread from the other side of the agrument. I've asked and no one had delivered. Rivrrat being cool with males and females showering in together in the military has nothing to do with reality. She posted it as if it did.

I'm not the one that brought it up as a defense for my argument. YOUR side did. It's time to put up, or shut up. The only thing you've posted are personal attacks about my sexual preference. Got anything of any kind of substance?
 
Dr_Patrick said:
So when someone asks for proof from you, they are being argumentative and are a part of the "got proof" crowd, but its' okay for you to do it to others?
Click to expand...

I've provided a link to support my comments 100% of the time. Some can't say that on this forum; some of them being the very ones that harp on it the most.

The pack mentality prevails this morning.
 
apdst said:
I've provided a link to support my comments 100% of the time. Some can't say that on this forum; some of them being the very ones that harp on it the most.

The pack mentality prevails this morning.
Click to expand...

You've provided links that you hoped would support your comments. Thus far, from what I've seen, they haven't. Then when I pressed you further to provide proof you complained that I was being argumentative. It's hypocritical to hold others to a standard that you aren't willing to live up to.
 
apdst said:
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to support any of the claims that have been made on this thread from the other side of the agrument. I've asked and no one had delivered. Rivrrat being cool with males and females showering in together in the military has nothing to do with reality. She posted it as if it did.

I'm not the one that brought it up as a defense for my argument. YOUR side did. It's time to put up, or shut up. The only thing you've posted are personal attacks about my sexual preference. Got anything of any kind of substance?
Click to expand...

I repeat: NO ONE ****ING CARES ABOUT THIS MEN AND WOMEN SHOWERING TOGETHER TRIP YOU'VE BEEN ON. GAY MEN SHOWERING WITH STRAIGHT MEN IS STILL MEN SHOWERING WITH MEN. PERIOD.
 
apdst said:
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to support any of the claims that have been made on this thread from the other side of the agrument. I've asked and no one had delivered. Rivrrat being cool with males and females showering in together in the military has nothing to do with reality. She posted it as if it did.
Click to expand...
Erm. I posted it in response to YOUR direct question asking if anyone thought it was okay. If it has nothing to do with reality, then why ask the ****ing question?

Here, just to refresh your apparently failing memory:

This is the question you asked:
Do you think it's a good idea for males and females to share showers? It's a yes, or no question.
Click to expand...

So, why did you ask a question that you feel has nothing to do with reality?
 
Last edited:
jallman said:
I repeat: NO ONE ****ING CARES ABOUT THIS MEN AND WOMEN SHOWERING TOGETHER TRIP YOU'VE BEEN ON. GAY MEN SHOWERING WITH STRAIGHT MEN IS STILL MEN SHOWERING WITH MEN. PERIOD.
Click to expand...

Didn't you know gay men = women? I bet you are just cranky cuz you are being visited by your "little friend".
 
apdst said:
So, you speak for every serviceman out there? Glad to know it. That's a relief.
Click to expand...
He didn't say that. Fabricating things to make a point will only make you look foolish on this board.
 
Redress said:
Didn't you know gay men = women? I bet you are just cranky cuz you are being visited by your "little friend".
Click to expand...

I thought he was trying to say straight men = women since he is so worried about their tender little sensibilities being leered at by all the big bad wolves.
 
jallman said:
I thought he was trying to say straight men = women since he is so worried about their tender little sensibilities being leered at by all the big bad wolves.
Click to expand...

Could be. You guys are so scary and all.
 
EgoffTib said:
He didn't say that. Fabricating things to make a point will only make you look foolish on this board.
Click to expand...

I didn't fabricate anything. I asked a question.
 
apdst said:
Not openly, duh!!!!

Women served in the military before women were allowed in the military, too. You're not making much a of a point with the, "they're already there", argument.

Are we going to allow gays to serve openly in job skills where women are presently prohibited from serving?
Click to expand...

So then your problem isn't with gays serving in the military, it's with gays serving OPENLY in the military? If that's the case, every stupid argument you've made is a moot point. They could still stop fighting to save their lover whether they're allowed to serve openly or not. They could still sexually harass people whether they're allowed to serve openly or not. And worst of all, the evil gays will still be able to check out your junk in the shower whether they're allowed to serve openly or not. The horror, the horror!

Since prohibiting them from serving OPENLY is retarded and discriminatory, and doesn't even prevent any of the problems you imagine, why not just let them acknowledge that they are gay if they want to?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom