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Thread: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, it would relevant, because a ****in' brain surgeon isn't going to be in a forward unit. But, hey, it ain't you life on the line. Right?
    So is it your position that gays should be allowed to serve openly as long as they aren't in a forward unit?

    The Wermacht during WW2 allowed gays to serve in the ranks, as did the Shutzstauffel. How did it turn out for them? How many German soldiers died during WW2? There's ya numbers for ya.
    I'd really like to explore this line of argument in more detail. What is your understanding of the civilian and military policies toward gays under the Nazis? And in what sense do you believe those policies helped or hindered their war effort?

    ??

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    my objection to the abolition of DADT; is based purely on a fear of gay men.
    That's what I always figured.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I'd really like to explore this line of argument in more detail. What is your understanding of the civilian and military policies toward gays under the Nazis? And in what sense do you believe those policies helped or hindered their war effort?

    ??
    Ummm Homosexuals were sent to prison and concentration camps in NAZI Germany. They were hated almost as much as Jews.

    "An estimated 1.2 million men were homosexuals in Germany in 1928. Between 1933-45, an estimated 100,000 men were arrested as homosexuals, of which some 50,000 were officially sentenced. Most of these men served time in regular prisons, and an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 of those sentenced were incarcerated in concentration camps. It is unclear how many of the 5,000 to 15,000 eventually perished in the camps, but leading scholar Ruediger Lautman believes that the death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%. Homosexuals in the camps were treated in an unusually cruel manner by their captors, and were also persecuted by their fellow inmates. This was a factor in the relatively high death rate for homosexuals, compared to other groups.

    After the war, the treatment of homosexuals in concentration camps went unacknowledged by most countries, and some men were even re-arrested and imprisoned based on evidence found during the Nazi years. It was not until the 1980s that governments began to acknowledge this episode, and not until 2002 that the German government apologized to the gay community. This period still provokes controversy, however. In 2005, the European Parliament adopted a resolution on the Holocaust which included the persecution of homosexuals.
    " - [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the _Holocaust]Persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    I have no clue how he came up with gays serving in the German military under the Nazi's.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-16-09 at 12:57 AM.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Wermacht during WW2 allowed gays to serve in the ranks, as did the Shutzstauffel. How did it turn out for them? How many German soldiers died during WW2? There's ya numbers for ya.
    You'll have to show me where gays were allowed to serve during that time.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Nice try at oversimplifying something to make me seem like an idiot.
    I do not have to make you "seem" like anything. You dig your own grave, don't point the finger at me.

    Obviously i was making a point that not every sexual orientation is natural, and there have been studies that show pedophiles cannot help their attraction to children.
    Let's try further elaborating, because stating that pedophiles cannot help their attraction to children does little to convince me that we should keep gays out of the military. I'm going to need you to connect the dots here and formulate an argument.

    If it makes you feel smart to belittle my intelligence, feel free. i won't lose any sleep over it.
    Roger that.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It ain't broke, so you wanna fix it?
    Define "broke". I would hardly call the system we have in place "flawless".

    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Why can't the pro homosexual crowd ever argue their positions without degenerating into calling everyone that doesn't agree with them names?

    Its also clear many of you are not reading what people are saying you're just quoting them and bashing for applause. Or worse intentionally distorting what they said.

    I made comments that pretty much ignored the homosexuality of this entire thing..and what did I get in reply??..that I am now in favor of beating up homosexuals.

    Ridiculous about sums it up.
    Last edited by Triad; 07-16-09 at 01:36 AM.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Why can't the pro homosexual crowd ever argue their positions without degenerating into calling everyone that doesn't agree with them names?
    No need to generalize.

    Its also clear many of you are not reading what people are saying you're just quoting them and bashing for applause. Or worse intentionally distorting what they said.

    I made comments that pretty much ignored the homosexuality of this entire thing..and what did I get in reply??..that I am now in favor of beating up homosexuals.
    Well stop being a "fag basher".
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Why can't the pro homosexual crowd ever argue their positions without degenerating into calling everyone that doesn't agree with them names?
    If a person feels that someone should not serve because he is black, he is called a bigot against blacks.

    If a person feels that someone should not serve because they are gay they are called a bigot against gays.

    Sorry you cannot accept the facts.

    EVERYONE is a bigot against something though.

    I am a bigot in the fact I don't want child molesters serving in the military. I am proud to be a bigot in saying child molesters shouldn't be in the military.

    The real question is are you proud to be a bigont in the fact you don't want gays serving in the military? Are you willing to say gays are second class citizens that can't serve in the military?

    I am willing to say child molesters are second class citizens, are you proud of saying gays are second class citizens?



    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    I made comments that pretty much ignored the homosexuality of this entire thing..and what did I get in reply??..that I am now in favor of beating up homosexuals.
    .
    No the only claim you have made is that since gays are not accepted into the military it must be right.

    That is the ONLY claim you have made and frankly it is false since gays have and still are serving in the military today. They just can't do so publicly.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 07-16-09 at 02:07 AM.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Since gays can't serve openly in the military they must be second class citizens.

    Who among DP is willing to admit that gays are second class citizens?

    Come on now, you know who you are, to admit that gays shouldn't be afforded the right to openly serve in the military, show now you support that gays are second class citizens. Let's see it now.

    Or are you afraid?

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