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Thread: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Welcome to the Good Reverend's world, shorty.
    I knew we were two of a kind the first time I encountered you here.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    OK, that has nothing to do with changing billeting. That's a sexual harassment issue.
    hence the reason for seperate billeting of males and females.

    Well before we can even address that, we need a homo to sexually harass you for having such a purty mouth and sweet little behind first.
    And, what if a gay soldiers is harrassed and requests seperate billets? You're automatically assuming that the harrassment will be gay on straight, but seem to refuse to consider the harrassment the other way around. How would you feel if a soldier with the proclivaty of predetorial conduct and harrasses another soldier who is more submissive and both of those soldiers are gay? I'm sure your first reaction is to kick someone out of the service, but how long does that continue as the reaction to such conduct before you find yourself cashiering too many service members? It's the reason that males and females don't billet together, it wouldn't take long for there not to be anyone left to discharge.

    You are aware that a male soldier can burned for looking at a female soldier the wrong way. Right? When a soldier complains that he/she is being harrassed, it's going to have to be addressed. The chain of commands response to that cannot be, "just suck itup, troop", or to ingore it, unless of course that NCO, or officer wants to see an early end to his, or her career. The solution to same sex sexual harrassment can't be to force those two soldiers to live in the same room together. That's just asking for trouble.

    If you check out Article 134 of the UCMJ, you'll see that the offense of, "intent to rape", doesn't have to include physical contact with the victim.

    I believe alot of folks on this thread have over-simplified things, mostly from a lack of understanding of military rules, regulations and laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    If I ever felt "sexually harrassed" by a dood, I'd punch him. Problem solved.

    I wouldn't punch a chick though, I like them.
    I think that those who are the most likely to be intimidated by the thought of having a gay person (male or female) attracted to them are those who don't have a wealth of experience in dealing with the opposite sex.

    I work in a male-dominated field, and have been hit on daily/weekly for almost 20 years. I flirt with the guys I work with, and they flirt back, and we have a damn good time. No one takes it seriously, and no one gets hurt. No harm, no foul.

    Anyone who is attractive is going to deal with people being attracted to them, of both genders. It REALLY is not as big a deal as some of you seem to think it is. You just handle it. Mostly, I handle it with a smile. It's flattering.

    Just because someone thinks you have a cute ass doesn't mean that there is pressure on you to act on your latent homosexual urges, apdst. Really. I promise. No means no.

    Just say "Thanks, but no thanks" and go about your business.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    hence the reason for seperate billeting of males and females.
    No one here is discussing males and females sleeping and showering together except you. Move on.

    And, what if a gay soldiers is harrassed and requests seperate billets? You're automatically assuming that the harrassment will be gay on straight, but seem to refuse to consider the harrassment the other way around.
    I thought we were talking about sexual harassment. Now why in the world would a straight man sexually harass another man?

    How would you feel if a soldier with the proclivaty of predetorial conduct and harrasses another soldier who is more submissive and both of those soldiers are gay?
    The same way I would feel if a male soldier was predatorial with any other soldier.

    I'm sure your first reaction is to kick someone out of the service, but how long does that continue as the reaction to such conduct before you find yourself cashiering too many service members?
    My first reaction isn't discharge and neither is the military's. Disciplinary proceedings are my first reaction, followed by stripping of rank, and finally discharge if the behavior is not corrected.

    It's the reason that males and females don't billet together, it wouldn't take long for there not to be anyone left to discharge.
    No one here is discussing men and women billeting together except you.

    You are aware that a male soldier can burned for looking at a female soldier the wrong way. Right? When a soldier complains that he/she is being harrassed, it's going to have to be addressed. The chain of commands response to that cannot be, "just suck itup, troop", or to ingore it, unless of course that NCO, or officer wants to see an early end to his, or her career. The solution to same sex sexual harrassment can't be to force those two soldiers to live in the same room together. That's just asking for trouble.
    First you are assuming that sexual harassment will be rampant or more rampant than it currently is. Second, you are assuming that measures will be more drastic following DADT. There is nothing to indicate this. Not one shred of empirical evidence.

    If you check out Article 134 of the UCMJ, you'll see that the offense of, "intent to rape", doesn't have to include physical contact with the victim.

    I believe alot of folks on this thread have over-simplified things, mostly from a lack of understanding of military rules, regulations and laws.
    So now we're right back a t a "don't drop the soap" prison rape scenario? What makes you think that this is going to become some issue? Are you afraid the homos are going to start forcibly dipping their sticks in your honey pots spontaneously at the repealing of DADT?

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    If I ever felt "sexually harrassed" by a dood, I'd punch him. Problem solved.
    And, you would find yourself in the stockade. The charges would stack up a mile high if you assaulted a gay soldier. Besides assault, you would probably get hit with descrimination, intent to rape and possibly intent to commit manslaughter. Those two soldiers who got smacked with double digit sentences in that other thread probably got smacked with intent to rape and that's why their sentences were so long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    I've been married for 34 years. I was married over a monopoly board; we interrupted the game at the justices house in our flip flops and cutoffs. She wasn't big on decorum and consented to marry us. We would have "lived in sin" for 34 years but they were paying big BAQ and dependents allowances and I was just about to reenlist after an 11 month break in service and move to DC. It actually costs me to be married now (married tax penalty) but I hate lawyers and the government saying they have to somehow condone what is or isn't involved in my life. My wife and I have had a "gentlemens" agreement from day one in our relationship about who would get what when. The government is irrelevant because we are not going to ask it what we should do or to bless what we do. Does that answer your question?
    Last edited by LowRevs; 07-15-09 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Remove slightly uncivil closing.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, you would find yourself in the stockade. The charges would stack up a mile high if you assaulted a gay soldier. Besides assault, you would probably get hit with descrimination, intent to rape and possibly intent to commit manslaughter. Those two soldiers who got smacked with double digit sentences in that other thread probably got smacked with intent to rape and that's why their sentences were so long.



    hmm... I have been in plenty of fights with other service members... VA beach was the worst... Damn navy guys always startin crap and what not....


    I dunno. When one is in a combat unit, one tends to settle differences without the chain of command..... Maybe it was different for you?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    I've been married for 34 years. I was married over a monopoly board; we interrupted the game at the justices house in our flip flops and cutoffs. She wasn't big on decorum and consented to marry us. We would have "lived in sin" for 34 years but they were paying big BAQ and dependents allowances and I was just about to reenlist after an 11 month break in service and move to DC. It actually costs me to be married now (married tax penalty) but I hate lawyers and the government saying they have to somehow condone what is or isn't involved in my life. My wife and I have had a "gentlemens" agreement from day one in our relationship about who would get what when. The government is irrelevant because we are not going to ask it what we should do or to bless what we do. Does that answer your question? If not, TS.
    Whoa...don't get an attitude with me, sport. I was asking a question based on your assessment that the list I gave was all to suit attention starved females. Marriage was among that list so I was curious as to your take on the issue.

    Forgive me for thinking you had a modicum of civility and enough social aptitude to understand the ebb and flow of conversation.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Whoa...don't get an attitude with me, sport. I was asking a question based on your assessment that the list I gave was all to suit attention starved females. Marriage was among that list so I was curious as to your take on the issue.

    Forgive me for thinking you had a modicum of civility and enough social aptitude to understand the ebb and flow of conversation.
    I have enough aptitude to grasp the tone of your post. "Fvch. That." My mouse battery just died while I was reading your response and I thought some tech from SF, CA had hacked through my McAfee.

    I don't see the uncivility in my response. It's all true, stated as uncolored facts. Thank you for the opportunity to describe my perspective on the subject.
    Last edited by LowRevs; 07-15-09 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Improve response.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No one here is discussing males and females sleeping and showering together except you. Move on.
    I'm using it as an example of the military's standard on billetting to illustrate my point. Since DADT hasn't been abolished, yet, it's the only barometer to work with. It won't be until the DoD addresses openly serving gays in the military that there will be another mark to gauge with.

    I thought we were talking about sexual harassment. Now why in the world would a straight man sexually harass another man?
    Are you saying it can't happen? If a soldier says to a gay soldier, "did you take it in the ass this weekend?", then that's sexual harrassment.


    The same way I would feel if a male soldier was predatorial with any other soldier.
    And, it is a soldier's right to request protection when he/she feels that her safety is being threatened by another soldier, especially if the threat of arm is sexual.



    My first reaction isn't discharge and neither is the military's. Disciplinary proceedings are my first reaction, followed by stripping of rank, and finally discharge if the behavior is not corrected.
    Um, no, not when it comes to sexual violations. The first step is courts martial, then discharge.



    First you are assuming that sexual harassment will be rampant or more rampant than it currently is. Second, you are assuming that measures will be more drastic following DADT. There is nothing to indicate this. Not one shred of empirical evidence.
    1 in 3 female soldiers experience sexual harrassment in the military, as sexual harrassment is defined by the DoD. It only stands to reason that sexual harrassment is going to increase if you throw gay on straight and straight on gay harrassment cases into the mix. It's totally unavoidable for the sexual offense rate to remain the same and sure won't go down. Right now, there are minimal cases because of DADT. Hell, the sexual offense rate will go up because of spite cases, alone, not to mention the cases where sexual offense actually takes place.



    So now we're right back a t a "don't drop the soap" prison rape scenario? What makes you think that this is going to become some issue? Are you afraid the homos are going to start forcibly dipping their sticks in your honey pots spontaneously at the repealing of DADT?

    It's human nature. If it wasn't, then sexual harrassment wouldn't even exist in our culture. The reality is, though, it does and the other reality is, sexual harrassment isn't confined to male on female misconduct. The scenarios will infinitesimal. To say that it isn't going to happen, is just plain denial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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