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Thread: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You didn't say child molester (a crime). You said pedophile, and you specifically used it in the sense of a sexual orientation. So yes, if they're a pedophile and they aren't molesting kids or breaking any other laws, of course they're entitled to equal rights.
    The point is there are several different sexual orientations. Only one of them involves performing a natural act, and therefore is the only one that should be seen as legitimate. Just because you know some gay guys that are neato fellas doesn't mean they aren't sexual deviants. I don't want to be in a freakin fox hole with one, period.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    The point is there are several different sexual orientations. Only one of them involves performing a natural act,
    There are several different forms of attire and only one of them involves a natural act. That would be nudity.

    Are you suggesting that nature dictates to us what we accept as a society?

    I suppose since you are so nature obsessed, you would like to bar people who wear corrective lenses from the military too. How about those with fillings in their teeth? Women who shave their legs? How about anyone with a metal pin to repair a broken bone?

    Anyone who has performed cunilingus? Felatio? There's nothing exactly natural about french kissing. Electricity has got to go for the military. Anything else not natural? We can just make the list now and let you sign off on it before passing it on to our congressmen for review.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    The point is there are several different sexual orientations. Only one of them involves performing a natural act, and therefore is the only one that should be seen as legitimate. Just because you know some gay guys that are neato fellas doesn't mean they aren't sexual deviants. I don't want to be in a freakin fox hole with one, period.
    Well then that's your problem, not theirs. Perhaps we should allow gays to serve openly, and have a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for homophobes. Under this policy, you won't be discharged as long as you keep your hillbilly bigotry to yourself.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-13-09 at 07:29 PM.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your ignorance of how the military works is overflowing. Ya see, regardless of how many times we hear the old, "the army isn't a democracy", BS the fact is that soldiers have rights. A females soldier has the right to not have to be nekkid in the same room with male soldiers. If you were a leader in the military and you hit that female soldier with your little, "suck it up and drive on", mentality, you wouldn't be a leader for long. In accordance with that same policy, a straight, or even a gay solider could insist on the same level of privacy and would have to be accorded that, as their right.

    I would love for you to try and force a female soldier to shower with a male soldier, or deny a soldier his/her rights to perform personal hygene and see how fast your butt is cashiered out of the service.
    So you believe that soldiers should have the right to pick and choose with whom they want to shower? What was that about maintaining unit discipline again?
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    There are several different forms of attire and only one of them involves a natural act. That would be nudity.

    Are you suggesting that nature dictates to us what we accept as a society?

    I suppose since you are so nature obsessed, you would like to bar people who wear corrective lenses from the military too. How about those with fillings in their teeth? Women who shave their legs? How about anyone with a metal pin to repair a broken bone?

    Anyone who has performed cunilingus? Felatio? There's nothing exactly natural about french kissing. Electricity has got to go for the military. Anything else not natural? We can just make the list now and let you sign off on it before passing it on to our congressmen for review.
    Hahaha, these analogies are awesome. Yeah, cos using electricity is right on par with grown men sodomizing each other. The fact is none of the things you described affect unit cohesion. Homosexuality does. Maybe one day when everyone shares y9our "enlightened" opinion, it won't matter. In the real world, however, it does.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So you believe that soldiers should have the right to pick and choose with whom they want to shower? What was that about maintaining unit discipline again?
    Soldiers are required to shower with those of the same gender, because of issues of sexual tension. Are you really sure you want to use this point to make your argument?

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Hahaha, these analogies are awesome. Yeah, cos using electricity is right on par with grown men sodomizing each other. The fact is none of the things you described affect unit cohesion. Homosexuality does. Maybe one day when everyone shares y9our "enlightened" opinion, it won't matter. In the real world, however, it does.
    Except no one has said anything about "grown men sodomizing each other." Is THAT what you're worried will happen if some dude checks out your package in the shower?

    Proof of sodomy is not required; people can be discharged from the military merely for their sexual orientation, even if they're pure-as-snow virgins.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You wouldn't tell a female to, "suck it up", if she refused to shower with male soldiers.
    At a practical level, you schedule shower times. In real life, any NCO worth the title can find a practical solution to such a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    My point is, it's going to cause complications when straight soldiers refuse to shower with gay soldiers and vice-versa. I mean, what are you going to do? Physically force soldiers to shower with each other in those situations? Good luck with unit morale after that.
    See above. At a practical level, showers in theater are almost all divided into stalls these days. There have always been people who didn't want to shower with the guys - even for reasons other then being gay or homophobic. They have always either suffered or rescheduled their own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I spent 13 years as an infantryman, so I'm standing on solid rock when I compare the abolition of DADT to current DoD and DA policies. I opposed the abolition of DADT on the same grounds that I oppose females serving in combat arms units and co-ed units. It could cause--and has--a break down in discipline, thereby causing a unit to lose some of it's combat power. Are you familiar with the elements of combat power?
    Yep. I have spent most of my career as a line-medic in infantry units. I have seen all kinds of things destroy the moral of a unit, and most have them have been green on green violence of one kind or another. One of the most common has been soldiers failing to set aside a variety of prejudices. Maybe the most common is failure of leadership. If the 1SG cannot deal with females, it makes the rest a lot harder.

    I have seen the most incredibly ignorant and racist hick you could imagine risk his life for the equally racist Malcolm-X wannabe next to him because they had a bond that had nothing to do with wanting to shower together or liking each other.

    Here's a question for you: Maybe you could not today accept a female or gay male into such a bond. If, from the minute you had joined, you had been expected to do this, and everyone had been held to the same standard, could you have learned to do it?

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Soldiers are required to shower with those of the same gender, because of issues of sexual tension. Are you really sure you want to use this point to make your argument?
    Whose sexual tension are we talking about here? Yours or theirs? If you're so worried about the dreaded shower scenario, then YOU are the one with the issues that should be dealt with...not them.
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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well then that's your problem, not theirs. Perhaps we should allow gays to serve openly, and have a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for homophobes. Under this policy, you won't be discharged as long as you keep your hillbilly bigotry to yourself.
    You should thank God for "hillbilly bigots". They keep the coast clear so you can log on to your computer and crusade for sodomoy all day. You think people with your mindset are trading fire with Hajji? There are a few, but you are in the minority. Hell, you couldn't even get Prop 8 passed in the most liberal state in the union. That should have been an indicator to you.

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