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Thread: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yeah, cannot see why a study she did on the current military would be taken over the word of a bunch of retired military people who belong to a conservative vet group.
    How much time in the field leading troops does she have? That wasn't on her resume. Has she been to infantry school? Jump school? Arctic warfare school? Jungle school? Ranger school? SF qual-course? Have her CIB? Most of those men do and that's why I'll take their opinion over Dr. Miller's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I will say this, as a "non-ranger' person in the U.S. Army, when I was in I sure in the hell wouldn't have voted for the damn berets and force the ranger folks to go tan.
    See? We found some common ground. Berets for non-special/elite troops was the worst uniform policy the Army ever created...IMO. There was consideration being given to bringing back the, "Ike Jacket", right before I ETS'ed, but unfortunately, that was a no-go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How much time in the field leading troops does she have? That wasn't on her resume. Has she been to infantry school? Jump school? Arctic warfare school? Jungle school? Ranger school? SF qual-course? Have her CIB? Most of those men do and that's why I'll take their opinion over Dr. Miller's.
    Of course you would. It's not convenient to admit that there is no evidence whatsoever to back your position, and that means throwing out the only study done on the subject of gays in the military. What is particularly amusing is almost all of us who fulfill your qualifications to pass judgment on the issue on this board support gays in the military, but of course, we don't count either since we are inconvenient. You have blinded yourself to everything but what you see as the truth, and that makes your point of view incredibly limited.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    See? We found some common ground. Berets for non-special/elite troops was the worst uniform policy the Army ever created...IMO. There was consideration being given to bringing back the, "Ike Jacket", right before I ETS'ed, but unfortunately, that was a no-go.
    But to prove a point, it wasn't voted on by the soldiers. And it was a changing event. I knew many rangers that were ****ing pissed.

    There are changing events in the military that are NOT voted on by the soldiers.

    DADT, Berets, EO, whatever.

    It happens, gays being allowed (openly) in them ilitary is another one of those.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 07-02-09 at 08:21 PM.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Never had a 1st SGT in that situation.
    I saw it happen twice. One guy thought he was going to punish his company for poor performance on a field problem and he didn't bring them evening chow. I was assigned to the battalion S-3 at the time and I just had to ask him what the hell he was thinking...LOL!!!

    Tell me when did the soldiers have a vote on DADT in the first place?

    Did the soldiers have a vote in Black Officers?
    Unofficially, they did. The DoD took the reaction of the soldiers into consideration when making the decision, I'm sure. Wouldn't you? Or would your political agenda take precedence over troop morale?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    But to prove a point, it wasn't voted on by the soldiers. And it was a changing event. I knew many rangers that were ****ing pissed.
    We're talking about something more than just a hat, too.

    You remember the first generation BDU's with the big ass disco collar? Wish I woulda had a vote on that crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Of course you would. It's not convenient to admit that there is no evidence whatsoever to back your position, and that means throwing out the only study done on the subject of gays in the military. What is particularly amusing is almost all of us who fulfill your qualifications to pass judgment on the issue on this board support gays in the military, but of course, we don't count either since we are inconvenient. You have blinded yourself to everything but what you see as the truth, and that makes your point of view incredibly limited.
    Would you take the word of a doctor who had actually done a few surgeries, or the word of a doctor that wrote a few books about doing surgeries?

    Practical experience, in any situation, trumps every other opinion.

    What is particularly amusing is almost all of us who fulfill your qualifications to pass judgment on the issue on this board support gays in the military, but of course, we don't count either since we are inconvenient.
    What, I'm not as qualified as you are? Is this where we get into a dick measuring contest about who had crotch-rot the most and who had to eat the most snakes?
    Last edited by apdst; 07-02-09 at 08:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I saw it happen twice. One guy thought he was going to punish his company for poor performance on a field problem and he didn't bring them evening chow. I was assigned to the battalion S-3 at the time and I just had to ask him what the hell he was thinking...LOL!!!
    Haven't seen it. All the 1SG I had never were brough up on that. I only had one 1SG brought up on anything and that was because he was accused of dinggling a Specialist. He was only relieved of his 1SG rank but allowed to keep his E-8 and stay a MSG.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Unofficially, they did. The DoD took the reaction of the soldiers into consideration when making the decision, I'm sure. Wouldn't you? Or would your political agenda take precedence over troop morale?

    Actually there were MANY cases when Blacks were made officers hat the enlisted were not happy with and many of them were disciplined for it.

    Either way, officially soldiers didn't vote for it, so why should gays serving openly be allowed that option officially?

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're talking about something more than just a hat, too.

    You remember the first generation BDU's with the big ass disco collar? Wish I woulda had a vote on that crap.
    Blacks being officers was NOT voted officially either.

    And I later saw an officer that had that Big ass disco collar still in 1998 and laughed my ass off lol.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 07-02-09 at 08:28 PM.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Haven't seen it. All the 1SG I had never were brough up on that. I only had one 1SG brought up on anything and that was because he was accused of dinggling a Specialist. He was only relieved of his 1SG rank but allowed to keep his E-8 and stay a MSG.
    Oh, you were in a co-ed unit? Glad I didn't have to deal with all that.


    Actually there were MANY cases when Blacks were made officers hat the enlisted were not happy with and many of them were disciplined for it.

    Either way, officially soldiers didn't vote for it, so why should gays serving openly be allowed that option officially?
    And, there was alotta racial unrest in the 70's, too. I wonder if it was worth it. Tom Clancey's Battle Ready has contributions by General Anthony Zinni that touches on the racial problems he encountered while stationed in Okinawa. Good read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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