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Thread: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ask your dad if he knowingly shared an open bay shower with a gay soldier. Ask him how he would have felt about that. Ask him if he would, "spoon", with an openly gay soldiers on a freezing cold night.
    One thing I've noticed about men who most strongly oppose gays in the military... they tend to frame the argument by imagining situations in which they are 'hit on' by gays, whether in the shower or in more intimate situations such as 'spooning.'

    There was a major in my office during Clinton's DADT debate who was extremely outspoken about the issue. He seemed to be under the impression that gay men were attracted to him and wanted to get into his pants. He wasn't particularly attractive. If he walked into a gay bar I imagine he'd have trouble picking up a date. But in his mind, all gay men wanted a piece of his ass. Weird.


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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    One thing I've noticed about men who most strongly oppose gays in the military... they tend to frame the argument by imagining situations in which they are 'hit on' by gays, whether in the shower or in more intimate situations such as 'spooning.'
    Some people exist in rich fantasy worlds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    One thing I've noticed about men who most strongly oppose gays in the military... they tend to frame the argument by imagining situations in which they are 'hit on' by gays, whether in the shower or in more intimate situations such as 'spooning.'

    There was a major in my office during Clinton's DADT debate who was extremely outspoken about the issue. He seemed to be under the impression that gay men were attracted to him and wanted to get into his pants. He wasn't particularly attractive. If he walked into a gay bar I imagine he'd have trouble picking up a date. But in his mind, all gay men wanted a piece of his ass. Weird.

    One thing I've noticed, is that people who support gays serving openly in the military always resort to the, "homophobe", argument, rightaway. Thay never stop to think of the full ramification of such policies.

    I've always proposed that we allow our service members to vote on the issue and go with their consensus, and let their vote settle things once and for all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    One thing I've noticed, is that people who support gays serving openly in the military always resort to the, "homophobe", argument, rightaway. Thay never stop to think of the full ramification of such policies.

    I've always proposed that we allow our service members to vote on the issue and go with their consensus, and let their vote settle things once and for all.
    He did not accuse you of being a homophobe, nor did you refute his points in any way. You post is a classic example of misdirection, steering attention away from points you cannot refute.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've always proposed that we allow our service members to vote on the issue and go with their consensus, and let their vote settle things once and for all.
    As a retired veteran I find this laughable at best. Since when do we allow our soldiers to vote on anything in regards to the military.

    To quote my Drill Sergeant, which did not come up with the phrase, but it is true to this day in the military, "We are here to protect Democracy, not to practice it"

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    He did not accuse you of being a homophobe, nor did you refute his points in any way. You post is a classic example of misdirection, steering attention away from points you cannot refute.
    Got those coed latrine docs yet? We're all waiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Got those coed latrine docs yet? We're all waiting.
    Still using misdirection instead of debate?

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    As a retired veteran I find this laughable at best. Since when do we allow our soldiers to vote on anything in regards to the military.

    To quote my Drill Sergeant, which did not come up with the phrase, but it is true to this day in the military, "We are here to protect Democracy, not to practice it"
    Thank you for your service.

    I think that it is the right of every soldier to a safe and comfortable environment. Yes? Since you're retired, I'm sure you are already familiar with that policy. It's the same policy that prevents the military from forcing males and females to use the same shower, at the same time. It's also the same policy that EOB's are created IAW and the same policy that prohibits offciers and NCO's from physically punishing an enlisted man. Probably even the same policy that ended flogging as a punishment.

    You may want to reference FM 27-1, chapter 10 and/or AR 600-20, for further information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Still using misdirection instead of debate?
    Gottem, or not? I'm just living up to the high standard that you set the first day I joined this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gay West Point grad testifies before Army

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    One thing I've noticed, is that people who support gays serving openly in the military always resort to the, "homophobe", argument, rightaway. Thay never stop to think of the full ramification of such policies.
    This is an interesting line of reasoning.

    Do you believe most men worry about being leered at in the locker room at the gym? I'm a member of 24 Hour Fitness. There's no 'gay' policy there. And to my knowledge, no one's even raised the issue. Guys work out, shower, change, and get on with their business.

    What are the specific 'ramifications' you're so concerned about regarding the shower scenario in the military? Can you elaborate?

    Could you also elaborate on your 'spooning' scenario? If male and female soldiers were somehow caught in 15 below zero conditions, do you believe 'spooning' for warmth would lead to unwanted sexual advances?

    ..

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