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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Their representative in the House and Senate. Small business costs has always been a huge issue. I believe with the last hike in minimum wage was accompanied with a number of small business tax breaks.
    I've been asking for a moral justification, and I still haven't seen one. It's not the responsibility of an employer to make sure that his employees can live. All the employer cares about is retaining his employees by paying them competitive wages that are still lower than the production he gets from them.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I've been asking for a moral justification, and I still haven't seen one. It's not the responsibility of an employer to make sure that his employees can live. All the employer cares about is retaining his employees by paying them competitive wages that are still lower than the production he gets from them.
    Well go start a thread about the minimum wage in the Economics thread. As stated before, as it is related to this thread the minimum wage exists, like it or not.
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Well go start a thread about the minimum wage in the Economics thread. As stated before, as it is related to this thread the minimum wage exists, like it or not.
    But I was arguing that minimum wage hurts the state. It's not practical, and I'm trying to show that there is no moral justification either. It is very related.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But I was arguing that minimum wage hurts the state. It's not practical, and I'm trying to show that there is no moral justification either. It is very related.
    Well the main purpose is to attempt to keep working families out of poverty. Of course an argument can be made that it hurts the economy my increasing labor and costs of goods.

    I highly doubt minimum wage is the cause of California's woe's as it has thrived with minimum wage for decades.
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Well the main purpose is to attempt to keep working families out of poverty. Of course an argument can be made that it hurts the economy my increasing labor and costs of goods.

    I highly doubt minimum wage is the cause of California's woe's as it has thrived with minimum wage for decades.
    Well, in the real world the minimum wage is the tool the goonions use to jack up the overpaid wages they extort from their employer.

    If the minimum wage goes from $7.25 an hour to $7.65 an hour, that's a 5.5% increase, and by golly, it's NOT FAIR for the bottom wage earners to get such a huge increase while the goonions get none, so the goonions extort a 6% increase or more for their goons.

    THATS what the minimum wage is all about.

    Absolutely no one is supposed to be raising a family on the minimum wage.

    And, if you'd care to check, you'll see that there's absolutey no authority in the Constitution for the Congress to interfere in private sector wage scales.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And, if you'd care to check, you'll see that there's absolutey no authority in the Constitution for the Congress to interfere in private sector wage scales.
    I agree with most of your other statements, but I have to take issue with this one.

    Article I, Section 8-Powers Granted to Congress
    1.Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

    Although this power pertains mostly to taxes it also implies the power to provide for the general welfare. At the time the minimum wage law was passed, workers needed this kind of government action to make wages that were actually sufficient to support thier family. If we removed the law, we might see a resurgance in un-sufficient wages, though this is unlikely. However, it remains true that providing for the security of workers lively-hoods does qualify as providing for the general welfare.

    As proof that Congress can pass minimum wage laws to carry out it's power to provide for the general welfare I submit the following.

    Article I, Section 8- Powers Granted to Congress
    18-To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers and all other powers granted by this Constitution in the Government of the United Statees, or any Department or officer thereof.

    This excerpt reinforces my point my indicating that Congress can pass laws to provide for the general welfare as that is one of the powers granted in the first excerpted section.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I agree with most of your other statements, but I have to take issue with this one.

    Article I, Section 8-Powers Granted to Congress
    1.Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

    Although this power pertains mostly to taxes it also implies the power to provide for the general welfare. At the time the minimum wage law was passed, workers needed this kind of government action to make wages that were actually sufficient to support thier family. If we removed the law, we might see a resurgance in un-sufficient wages, though this is unlikely. However, it remains true that providing for the security of workers lively-hoods does qualify as providing for the general welfare.

    As proof that Congress can pass minimum wage laws to carry out it's power to provide for the general welfare I submit the following.

    Article I, Section 8- Powers Granted to Congress
    18-To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers and all other powers granted by this Constitution in the Government of the United Statees, or any Department or officer thereof.

    This excerpt reinforces my point my indicating that Congress can pass laws to provide for the general welfare as that is one of the powers granted in the first excerpted section.
    He doesn't believe that Wickard v. Filburn occurred. Don't bother.
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    He doesn't believe that Wickard v. Filburn occurred. Don't bother.
    I don't really expect a decent response, I just thought I might use the Constitution to prove he was wrong to everyone else in the tread
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Well the main purpose is to attempt to keep working families out of poverty. Of course an argument can be made that it hurts the economy my increasing labor and costs of goods.
    But why do they deserve that when they don't produce that much for their employer? It sounds more like theft/abuse.

    I highly doubt minimum wage is the cause of California's woe's as it has thrived with minimum wage for decades.
    No, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt this state.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I agree with most of your other statements, but I have to take issue with this one.
    General welfare is a very vague term that has been exploited by Democrats for years.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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