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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #61
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    That's why the government has machine guns.
    Lol, okay, so I guess you agree with me on that, but what about welfare? I'd assume you don't like that either.

    So then, what would you do with immigration? Quota system or free immigration (as long as we weed out criminals)?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #62
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Oh, that's easy enough.

    Start arresting employers of invaders, fining them, and putting them in jail.

    The transition to an invader-free agricultural industry will happen rapidly and painlessly to me.
    So what happens to the economy and the nations food supply when 2/3 of the $30 billion a year agricultural industry, which is also close to 15% of the US food supply, is shutdown due to arrests?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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  3. #63
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm not totally convinced that the illegals are the workaholics that most folks think they are. I've worked around plenty of them and scene suddenly, "no comprende". Generally speaking, they do whine less than your average American doing the same job, but you have to understand the position they're in. It's either do the job, as is, or go back to Mexico. Not much room for whinin there. As long as we live in a country that awards laziness and punishes hard work, that's the way it'll always be.
    I'm not either. In my experience those workers do a half ass job. They do the job their told without complaint. It's the quality that gets hurt.

    Though in agriculture how much of a variant in quality is there when picking produce?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  4. #64
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I mean how can we morally justify it?

    And yes, employers would love for their workers to work for free, but if you have a policy that all of your employees will work for free, then you will have no employees.
    Which is why they pay their employers just enough to make them not leave. The minimum wage sets this baseline at, not what the employee is willing to make, but at what is required to live a means in the US that the employee can still give back to the consumer market, even if in a small way.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  5. #65
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Which is why they pay their employers just enough to make them not leave. The minimum wage sets this baseline at, not what the employee is willing to make, but at what is required to live a means in the US that the employee can still give back to the consumer market, even if in a small way.
    You must see the flaw in your reasoning. If what you are saying were true, then everyone would be making minimum wage.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #66
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You can't.

    That's why the government has machine guns.
    Obviously you can since the people, including the employee's, vote on minimum wage.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  7. #67
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You must see the flaw in your reasoning. If what you are saying were true, then everyone would be making minimum wage.
    How do you figure that? There is still an employment free market. This just sets the baseline for non-educated non-experienced non-specialty workers.

    Why would I make minimum wage when the employment market dictates my job is over 100k?
    Last edited by Gibberish; 06-30-09 at 08:22 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  8. #68
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    How do you figure that? There is still an employment free market. This just sets the baseline for non-educated non-experienced non-specialty workers.
    That's what I'm saying. They'll get paid what they're worth. Why is it any different with these people?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #69
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's what I'm saying. They'll get paid what they're worth. Why is it any different with these people?
    They can choose to decide they are worth more, ask for higher pay, and strike they don't receive it. The problem is, because of their lack of skills, education, and experience, they aren't worth more to anyone else. Thus their pay is limited to what employers are willing to pay them.

    If they want to make more they need to either demand it or acquire the skills to make themselves more valuable to employers.

    In the instance of the illegals. The workers are at the mercy of the employers because the illegal doesn't have the options to demand anything.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 06-30-09 at 08:25 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  10. #70
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    They can choose to decide they are worth more, ask for higher pay, and strike they don't receive it. The problem is, because of their lack of skills, education, and experience, they aren't worth more to anyone else. Thus their pay is limited to what employers are willing to pay them.

    If they want to make more they need to either demand it or acquire the skills to make themselves more valuable to employers.
    So then what is the moral justification for minimum wage?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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