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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #41
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Imagine: a world where you actually have to take on responsibility.
    I'm scared.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    California does have high taxes, but are 9th in the top 10. New Jersey and New York are the highest. I am a Democrat, but my problem with California is the same as the rest of the country. These states are not living within their means. Stop the deficit spending and then you can lower taxes, like the Dakotas and Alaska, that have the lowest taxes in the country and do not even tax incomes.
    California and New York can have higher taxes because people actually WANT to live here.
    The Dakotas and Alaska are good examples of states that have low taxes because if they had taxes on our level no one would live there.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This response just shows how little you know about the justice system. The cost is not in the appeal...the cost is in the prosecution.

    A murder charge without the death penalty usually goes to trial in about a year.
    A special circumstance/death penalty case usually takes about 4-5 years to prosecute because of the penalty phase portion of the trial.
    When death is the punishment, our system requires the prosecution to show that the aggravation outweighs any mitigating factors. Because death is absolute, it raises the stakes substantially higher than other cases.
    With the additional investigation ...etc. It costs about 10x as much to prosecute a death penalty case. If the state simply said that spending the rest of your life in a 10x4 cell was punishment enough.....we would save billions.
    This is so false that I don't know where to start.

    This response just shows how little you know about the justice system. The cost is not in the appeal...the cost is in the prosecution.
    Link?

    A murder charge without the death penalty usually goes to trial in about a year.
    A special circumstance/death penalty case usually takes about 4-5 years to prosecute because of the penalty phase portion of the trial.
    Link?

    With the additional investigation ...etc. It costs about 10x as much to prosecute a death penalty case.
    No, it absolutely doesn't. Even anti-death penalty advocacy groups don't make such ridiculous claims.

    From Amnesty:

    # A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
    (December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)

    # In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
    (2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)
    Death Penalty Cost

    You're taking your numbers from a CA study that doesn't actually look at the cost of prosecuting the cases, but makes horribly rough estimates as to the "cost of the system" and then extrapolates from there. Even then, you embellished.

    If the state simply said that spending the rest of your life in a 10x4 cell was punishment enough.....we would save billions.
    Even if this were true (and it's not), that assumes that the cost savings would outweigh the many lives that would be lost:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/us/18deter.html
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #44
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Not an expert here on that matter as far as ACTUAL costs, but what would you say a state would save on that, and would it be really worth doing?

    What I mean is if the death row costs an equivalent 5 cents to a $200.00 budget that doesn't amount to very much change or bang for the buck.

    Where is the main money being spent? Because that is what really has to be looked at then. If Death row is costing a big amount compared to what needs to be cut , then I say go for it, cut it.
    I would have to research it to get you a link, but I have worked in the justice system for a couple of decades. There are many studies that show that doing away would the death penalty would save billions of dollars.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    California does have high taxes, but are 9th in the top 10. New Jersey and New York are the highest. I am a Democrat, but my problem with California is the same as the rest of the country. These states are not living within their means. Stop the deficit spending and then you can lower taxes, like the Dakotas and Alaska, that have the lowest taxes in the country and do not even tax incomes.
    So you subscribe to the false theory that lower taxes equals lower government revenues.

    Good for you.

    Someone has to worship the false gods, or they go hungry.

    Better you than me.

    The states, all of them, need to stop spending on practically everything that involves the Robbin' Hood Principle, ie, stealing money where you can and buying votes with it.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    We should have better control over our borders. We definitely should get rid of welfare since it would destroy an incentive to come over.
    AND...!

    It would provide a serious incentive for people to turn off Oprah and get out to the fields where they can earn money to buy food.

    Work! What a concept.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If the state simply got out of the killing business the state would save billions of dollars.
    Then again, if the state got out of the appeal business, when DNA testing conclusively shows the accused is guilty, the state would save billions of dollars.

    Lots of people like that on death row, who could be flushed tomorrow, becuase their basic guilt isn't in question, merely whether some judge along the line failed to dot his j's.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This response just shows how little you know about the justice system. The cost is not in the appeal...the cost is in the prosecution.
    Oh, then let's restore vigilante justice. Rope is cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    A murder charge without the death penalty usually goes to trial in about a year.
    A special circumstance/death penalty case usually takes about 4-5 years to prosecute because of the penalty phase portion of the trial.
    Oh, nonsense.

    Jose Avilla was tried within two years of his apprehension, the day after his victim was found strangled with his sperm in her five year old body, with tire tracks matching his car at the scene where she was found and with her blond hair in his car.

    There was no reason that trial too so long to prepare.

    There is no reason why that turd is still breathing.

    The trial rules are too lenient if it takes two years to put that thing on trial, the appeals rules are to soft, if he's still breathing after all this time.

    Scott Peterson is still alive.

    Why?

    The ONLY thing making capital punishment so expensive is the bleeding heart whiners who don't mind seeing millions of innocent babies murdered each year but cry their hypocritical hearts out when a convicted murderer finally gets the punishment waiting for him.

    Here's a notion for ya. The justice system exists to punish the guilty. Claiming we should abdicate that duty to save money is the sheerest hypocrisy of liars who don't care the least bit about justice.

    Stop spending more than five billion dollars on illegal aliens, stop spending billions on welfare, stop spending billions upon billions on publics schools that don't educate, and stop spending billions more on social engineering programs that can never work because they ignore basic facts of human nature.

    But do all that before you continue corrupting the basic framework of the justice system. It's supposed to dispense justice for the victim and punishment to the convicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    When death is the punishment, our system requires the prosecution to show that the aggravation outweighs any mitigating factors. Because death is absolute, it raises the stakes substantially higher than other cases.
    Fine.

    Then when the case is shown to be aggravated beyond belief, when the evidence is totally incontrovertible, why isn't the accused executed?

    Well?

    Not because the evidence is faulty.

    Not because the jury made a boo-boo.

    Because the lawyers make money by dragging the system out.

    Start disbarring lawyers wasting taxpayer money with frivolities and watch the system improve.

  9. #49
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If they're US citizens, it will be illegal to pay them less than minimum wage.
    Eliminate the minimum wage. It's inflationary and decreases the number of jobs and it violates basic constitutional principles of property ownership and freedom of association.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If they're US citizens, they will also be able to go after jobs that they wouldn't be able to get, as illegals.
    If they started out as illegals, they have to get in the back of the line.

    That's called "fairness".


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They're also able to work for $3.00 per hour, too. Wouldn't a pay hike cause our food prices to go through the roof?
    Jeez, same old robot arguments getting dragged out until the poor thing's joints are frozen and the battery's done gone flat.

    It cost a dime to pick a head of lettuce that sells for a buck at the supermarket. If the cost of picking the damn thing is doubled to pay for legal labor, it costs twenty cents. If 100% of that cost was passed on to the consumer the price of lettuce would sky rocket all the way up to a dollar ten from a dollar.

    So much for the oh-gee, we'll go broke at the store argument favoring the invading hordes.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's the argument that the Libbos have used to defend illegal labor all these years. Is not as true now?
    Never been true at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If we're going to pay them minimum wage, anway, let's jsut deport all of them and give those jobs to actual American citizens.
    Let's just deport them because we understand what the word "illegal" means and be done with it.

  10. #50
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post



    Link?


    Here is a good place to start....(five second search)....When I have more time....I'll do the rest of your research for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    No, it absolutely doesn't. Even anti-death penalty advocacy groups don't make such ridiculous claims.
    Wrong...read the link and do a little research of your own.

    The reality is....the death penalty is costly and a luxury that the State can no longer afford, this doesn't even get into whether it is morally right or not...this is simple economics.
    If California wants to cut billions from its budget, eliminate the death penalty and punish offenders by putting them in a 10x4 cell for 23 hours a day for the rest of their lives.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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