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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Except that's not how an economy works. When those people leave then their demand also leaves. You're assuming that there will be just as much demand by saying that the jobs will be filled. Demand will drop when you ship people off and so the number of jobs will also drop.
    I can't follow that, as the number of jobs will be filled by the unemployed.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    If you have a population of 1000, let's say that 750 people want 1 widget. You need one person to make a widget, and 1 widget is all that person can make. To fill that demand, you'll have 750 people employed to each make a widget. That gives you 25% unemployment.

    But then you want to take out a portion of that population. Assume that the 75% demand for those widgets is the same in the population that is leaving and the population that will stay. 200 people are taken out of the population.

    Now you have a population of 800 people. 75% of this population wants widgets. Again, you need one person to make a widget, and 75% of 800 is 600. Therefore 600 people will be employed. You have 25% unemployment.

    You took out a part of the population, but you still have the same unemployment. Taking out part of the population changed nothing. I told you that you can't ignore the drop in demand that will result. My example is what happens when you factor in the drop in demand.
    Last edited by phattonez; 07-07-09 at 02:41 PM.

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    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If you have a population of 1000, let's say that 750 people want 1 widget. You need one person to make a widget, and 1 widget is all that person can make. To fill that demand, you'll have 750 people employed to each make a widget. That gives you 25% unemployment.

    But then you want to take out a portion of that population. Assume that the 75% demand for those widgets is the same in the population that is leaving and the population that will stay. 200 people are taken out of the population.

    Now you have a population of 800 people. 75% of this population wants widgets. Again, you need one person to make a widget, and 75% of 800 is 600. Therefore 600 people will be employed. You have 25% unemployment.

    You took out a part of the population, but you still have the same unemployment. Taking out part of the population changed nothing. I told you that you can't ignore the drop in demand that will result. My example is what happens when you factor in the drop in demand.
    This is based on two faulty assumptions:

    1) California's jobs are only subject to demand from Californians.
    2) Illegals produce as much demand as everyone else.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is based on two faulty assumptions:

    1) California's jobs are only subject to demand from Californians.
    2) Illegals produce as much demand as everyone else.
    The only demand that changes is the demand from illegals. If they are forced back, then their demand will drop because the prices will be more expensive to them compared to when they lived in California.

    The analogy wasn't perfect, but it was meant to prove a point. You can't ignore the drop in demand that WILL happen.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Give it to Mexico
    That's how I feel about Texas. give it back, crappy state.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is based on two faulty assumptions:

    1) California's jobs are only subject to demand from Californians.
    2) Illegals produce as much demand as everyone else.
    They do? I beg to differ with your second assumption. First, you would be paying a lot more for food if it weren't for exploited agricultural workers. Second, they do not have the income to generate mass demand like those who have jobs which are under labor laws, etc. You understanding of the whole situation lacks nuance and information.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What's the justification for having the government do it instead of charities?
    That relies on people's generosity, which is pretty poor (just read comments by conservatives on many a political forum about the poor). Frankly, government is the only entity large enough to do some of this work. While I support some charities, I don't expect that most people will give.

    As a trained minister (I'm not ordained, just trained), I can tell you this: 10% of the people sitting in conservative churches tithe. The people in those churches will tell you that the tithe is necessary but 90% of them don't give. I can't imagine how it would be different with the general populace.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    They do? I beg to differ with your second assumption. First, you would be paying a lot more for food if it weren't for exploited agricultural workers. Second, they do not have the income to generate mass demand like those who have jobs which are under labor laws, etc. You understanding of the whole situation lacks nuance and information.
    Which is why I called it a faulty assumption.

    Reread my post.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Except that's not how an economy works. When those people leave then their demand also leaves. You're assuming that there will be just as much demand by saying that the jobs will be filled. Demand will drop when you ship people off and so the number of jobs will also drop.
    If they are sent back to where they came from,their countries of origin,it would save Ca. about 10 billion dollars a year.

    Then tell most of the welfare people, hey we have jobs,but if you don't want to work we'll cut your welfare a lot.And if you still don't want to work, to nothing.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    That relies on people's generosity, which is pretty poor (just read comments by conservatives on many a political forum about the poor). Frankly, government is the only entity large enough to do some of this work. While I support some charities, I don't expect that most people will give.

    As a trained minister (I'm not ordained, just trained), I can tell you this: 10% of the people sitting in conservative churches tithe. The people in those churches will tell you that the tithe is necessary but 90% of them don't give. I can't imagine how it would be different with the general populace.
    Do you think it would be ethical for you to force all who come to church to pay 10% of their income? After all, you need that money.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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