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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #141
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I think that in some places, there are buisnesses perfectly willing to train an unskilled or low skill person on the job, and pay them more (although only a little more) than minimum wage. Alot of those jobs do not appeal to people, however.
    A lot of times though it is just the experience that you need to get a higher paying job. If you're young and not good at school, you'll go get a job. But if you can't produce minimum wage, then you won't be hired, and then how do you even start off? You don't have the education or the experience. Minimum wage hurts the young and the poor.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #142
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A lot of times though it is just the experience that you need to get a higher paying job. If you're young and not good at school, you'll go get a job. But if you can't produce minimum wage, then you won't be hired, and then how do you even start off? You don't have the education or the experience. Minimum wage hurts the young and the poor.
    I can agree with that, to some extent.

    I'm sure some get under the table payment for less than minimum wage.

    And I was in disagreement with the minimum wage increase recently. $5 was a much better minimum wage IMO. Some may think even that was too high, but it at least was not today’s current $7.25.

    For example, when I was younger (perhaps 14-16),and before the minimum wage increase, I worked a few days in a row during the summer at fairs for a food vendor. I was paid $5 an hour (or perhaps a bit more). This did not bother me in the least, as I was living at home, being supported by my parents, and the work was simply to earn a little extra money, not support a family. Increasing the minimum wage too much well eliminate some of these jobs, which in turn eliminates the availability for younger persons to gain experience in a workplace.

    This, IMO, is bad.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #143
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So you're happy with people with no skills being prevented from getting a job where they can get the skills to move up?
    Yes, there are plenty of opportuinities for training, people just need to take them. We need to emphasize education and provide equal ACCESS to said training. Once we do that, being unskilled is their own fault.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

  4. #144
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A lot of times though it is just the experience that you need to get a higher paying job. If you're young and not good at school, you'll go get a job. But if you can't produce minimum wage, then you won't be hired, and then how do you even start off? You don't have the education or the experience. Minimum wage hurts the young and the poor.
    If a person cannot add value equivalent to $7/hour, that should tell them (and us) something.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #145
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If a person cannot add value equivalent to $7/hour, that should tell them (and us) something.
    That they have no skills. If you can't get skills in school then the best place to get them is on the job. Why deny them that opportunity?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #146
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Yes, there are plenty of opportuinities for training, people just need to take them. We need to emphasize education and provide equal ACCESS to said training. Once we do that, being unskilled is their own fault.
    Some just aren't cut out for school. You're just going to throw them to the ditch because their labor isn't worth minimum wage?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #147
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Funny how the states in trouble are California, Michigan, New York.....

    Which way do those states lean? Hmmm.

  8. #148
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Yes, there are plenty of opportuinities for training, people just need to take them. We need to emphasize education and provide equal ACCESS to said training. Once we do that, being unskilled is their own fault.
    Absolutely right. We should provide completely equal access to training.

    Privatize the schools, and let the parents come up with the cash. So long as they pay tuition, they have access.

    What can be more equal than that?

  9. #149
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That they have no skills.
    Or that they're incompetent/lazy. You don't need any particular "skills" to be able to add $7/hr of value.

    The guy who walks my dog makes $20 and the woman who used to clean my apartment made $18. What "skills" were necessary for those jobs? Nothing more than honesty, reliability and the ability to do a job competently.

    There are literally millions of jobs out there that don't require any specialized "skills."

    If you can't get skills in school then the best place to get them is on the job. Why deny them that opportunity?
    How are they being denied this opportunity? Are they being forbidden from taking entry level jobs? Are they being banned from accepting job offers that they think are "beneath" them?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #150
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Some just aren't cut out for school. You're just going to throw them to the ditch because their labor isn't worth minimum wage?
    If someone is not "cut out" for school and is unable to produce $7/hr worth of value, they should be thankful that they live in a society that no longer experiences natural selection.

    That's just pathetic.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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