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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #121
    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It forces the employer to be charitable, and at that point you don't call it charity do you? Sounds like intimidation to me.



    Why is no one speaking for the employer here? He's getting cheated out of his property under such a theft scheme.
    No,he isn't. This is rediculous. It isn't a theft scheme it a regulation designed to protect workers from unfair wages. Name a company that has failed to make a profit because of minimum wage laws. Not healthcare, not unions, just minimum wage itself.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No,he isn't. This is rediculous. It isn't a theft scheme it a regulation designed to protect workers from unfair wages. Name a company that has failed to make a profit because of minimum wage laws. Not healthcare, not unions, just minimum wage itself.
    Not a company, but I know a group that has suffered because of the scheme: black teens. Before minimum wage, white and black teens had basically the same employment rate. Nowadays blacks teens have twice the unemployment as white teens.

    "Unfair wages" are wages that are nowhere near production levels. If I get paid $10 an hour and only produce $3 an hour then that is an unfair wage by anyone's standards.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #123
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No, you aren't. You've been tainted by "holier than thou" right wing propaganda
    Nope.

    I'm a libertarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No it is a regulation. The money doesn't come from the government and so is not a social welfare program.
    No money EVER comes from government.

    It's stolen from the taxpayers first.

    So, when the government commands that the least paid workers will be paid twice what their jobs produce, that's taking money from the people who earned it and giving it to people who haven't. The money doesn't go through the government, but it's stolen by the government just the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Your money isn't being stolen, it is being paid in the form of wages to workers. Minimum wage is not that much to ask.
    Oh. It's a request, is it? What happens when the people who actually have to pay the wage refuse this request?

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Healthcare benefits and god knows what else, is by far too much to demand of employers.
    Your logic is inconsistent. If the government can demand (not "ask") a minimum wage payment then using the exact same reasoning it can demand everything else, and nothing is "too much" for a greedy politician using someone else's money to buy votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No human being is worth more than another.
    So you won't shoot the man mugging your wife?

    What about the guy raping your son?

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Smarter, more successful, more resourceful, maybe, but not more valuable.
    So you have no problem with paying the nurse who empties your bed pan the same wage as the doctor who transplanted your heart?

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Except employers generall have no problem screwing their employees over, so if there was no minimum wage, there most likely would be no decent paying job.
    Yeah, before the Saints of Humongous Goverment "requested" the minimum wage, no one was getting more than anyone else, and they were all earning peanuts.

  4. #124
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    And employers show concern with their hundreds of employees and actuallly negotiate with them since when?
    When they can't find anyone to do the work for the wages offered.

    This is why people learn skills, so they have something to offer in exchange for higher wages. If all a man has to offer is muscle, all he gets offered is low paying muscle jobs.

    If the wages offered aren't enough, no one takes the job, the offered wage has to rise, or the job isn't done.

    This isn't complicated and there's no mystery.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    So it should be the fiat command of the rich elites? Give me a break.
    You mean like the man expanding a landscaping business that needs more muscles on the job?

    Is he a "rich elite"?

    How about the corner store?

    Are those people "rich elites"?

    Most of the people in this country work for middle class business owners, not "rich elites". Maybe you need to hang up your class warfare pre-programmed stereotypes and discover who America is.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    You're right, but the health and well being of a large population of U.S. citizens is a legitimate basis for it.
    I'm right.

    No "buts".

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I don't deny that the individual needs to be responsible and plan financially to support a family, but if there was no minimum wage law there would not be enough or possibly any decent paying jobs for the average Joe.
    Hang it up, no one with any sense is buying.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Yes I know what a job is. Someone works for someone else and is paid in an amount worthy of that work. I am not a socialist. I support capitalism and a relatively free market.
    No. If you support a relatively free market, you don't support capitalism, you support government interference in indivdual freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I do however believe in some regulations of that market.
    Only to the extent that fraud is punished.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Minimum wage is one such regulation I think is necessary to prevent a workforce wide problem of unfair wages.
    Can you explain who elected you to the Board of Arbitration of Wage Unfairness? Can you name any of the other BAWU commissioners? Who elected them?

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    If there is no regulation, companies will undervalue the labor, and other companies will see that they can charge less, so they will. It is a cycle.
    And eventually, the workers say, that's a waste of my time, I'm worth more than that, and the wages find their correct (and hence fair) level.

    Right now your insisting that the government intrude it's muscle and it's elitism to command wages to meet some arbitrary notion of "fairness". Which government loves to do, it's not their money.

    Want to know who determines what's fair? The worker and the employer. When they agree on a wage, that's fair. If they don't agree on a wage, there's no work done, and hence no worker, and with no worker, there's no employer. There's just people looking for jobs and people looking for people to fill jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No they don't. If they can't pay their workers decently and afford their cell phones they should go without cell phones.
    So, in your view, some people should be denied their earnings, and some other people should be allowed to take unearned money. And when this happens, you call it "fair".

  5. #125
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Wbreese, companies work together to screw the little guy? You think too much of companies. They don't like each other. In fact, they'll pay their workers competitive wages in order to get the best labor and do better than other businesses.

    You may not believe this, but competition actually encourages higher wages.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Wbreese, companies work together to screw the little guy? You think too much of companies. They don't like each other. In fact, they'll pay their workers competitive wages in order to get the best labor and do better than other businesses.

    You may not believe this, but competition actually encourages higher wages.
    No, I think companies take ideas from other companies and base their actions off what other companies are doing. Therefore, if one company sees that another company can get away with paying its workers less, they are more likely to pay their workers less. Competition incourages higher profits, not higher always wages.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    No, I think companies take ideas from other companies and base their actions off what other companies are doing. Therefore, if one company sees that another company can get away with paying its workers less, they are more likely to pay their workers less. Competition incourages higher profits, not higher always wages.
    But if one company is giving its workers less than they produce by a wide margin, then another company can come in and hire all of those workers for higher wages and so effectively kill the competition.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But if one company is giving its workers less than they produce by a wide margin, then another company can come in and hire all of those workers for higher wages and so effectively kill the competition.
    A mass worker exodus is unlikely as the competing company would be unable to hire all the competitions workers, but both of us are speculating here. Either scenario could happen, but a minimum wage gives the workers some security. A company can still pay more and steal the workers if they want, but workers are protected from insufficient wages. I will argue with you if you want to say the minimum wage is too high, and that we shouldn't have unions forcing people into providing healthcare and other benefits to their workers, but I do not agree that the minimum wage should be elliminated.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    In the midst of a budget crisis they are debating about cow tails...

    Arnold is hilarious.


    Governor Declares State of Emergency Due to Budget Impasse
    Thank you

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    General welfare is a very vague term that has been exploited by Democrats for years.
    Such as the noted libtard Alexander Hamilton

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Never even heard of it.
    That doesn't surprise me. Read it sometime, along with US v. Butler.

    What I do believe is that you've just argued from authority, and hence FAILED.

    Hint: Courts **** up.
    Watch me blow your mind. Stick with me, I know it will be tough.

    Arguing from authority: Stating your stance on something and then pointing out that an authority figure agreed with your stance.

    This type of argument can be flawed, because it assumes that the authority figure is right.

    Here's what's happening here:

    I'm not arguing that the SC said that general welfare clause was intended to be read broadly for the purpose of proving that the general welfare clause was intended to be read broadly.

    I'm pointing out that the SC said that the general welfare clause was intended to be read broadly for the purpose of proving that the current state of jurisprudence in this country is that the general welfare clause is read broadly.

    See how that's different from arguing from authority?

    I might not like the decisions in Butler or Wickard, but they are the law as it stands and aren't likely to be overturned anytime soon.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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