Page 12 of 21 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 202

Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #111
    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, Ohio
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    407

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hello?

    We're discussing the real world, not the phony over-inflated minimum wage world.

    Picking strawberries, if the farmer can get someone to do the work for $3 an hour, is worth $3 an hour, for example.

    That's how worth is measured. You remove the artifical constraints and allow prices to rise or fall to the level the market commands.
    I think capitalism can withstand a reasonable minimum wage requirement. That strawberry picker deserves to be able to feed his family just as much as any other person in the United States. Especially in the current economic situation, jobs are not readily available. He may not be able to find a better one, that doesn't mean his family shouldn't eat.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

  2. #112
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    It was pointed out by YOU. That's not a reliable source.
    I'm extremely reliable.

    I'm not tainted by socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    We are talking about minimum wage, not welfare. Minimum wage doesn't require the average person to help anyone.
    Minimum wage IS welfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    What's wrong with someone not be able to feed their families? Come on.
    Nothing. I don't have a problem with it, so long as my money isn't stolen to subsidize them.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Someone has to do those bottom level jobs,
    and they should be able to feed their family on it.
    Here's a better idea: if someone can't earn enough money to get married and support a family, they should either get a better job or not get married and have a family, especially when the alternative is the theft of money from their betters to pay for their inadequacies.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I'm not saying they need $7.65 an hour to do that, I'm just saying they should be able to live on what they make.
    They should strive to live on what they make, not demand to be paid what they need to live on.

    Know how people used to make wage demands on their employers? They'd apply for a job and ask "what's it pay?" If the pay wasn't enough, they'd go apply somewhere else.

  3. #113
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I think capitalism can withstand a reasonable minimum wage requirement.
    No, it can't.

    By definition, wages in capitalism are the agreement between the employer and employee, not the fiat command of the elites.


    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    That strawberry picker deserves to be able to feed his family just as much as any other person in the United States.
    You should read the Ninth Amendment, then the rest of the Constitution.

    The "right to feed family" clause isn't in the Constitution, hence the "right to feed family" is not a legitimate basis for a federal minimum wage. The right to feed family doesn't actually exist, since no right exists that commands the interference in another person's private business.

    No, Joe the strawberry-picker would do best to keep his pecker in his pants until he can afford to start a family. It's not his employer's problem.

    You are aware of what a job is, aren't you? Can you define the term? You socialists seem to have immense difficulty with this concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    Especially in the current economic situation, jobs are not readily available. He may not be able to find a better one, that doesn't mean his family shouldn't eat.
    Sure it does. It certainly doesn't mean his employer has to pay him more than his labor is worth. The employer's family has to pay their cell phone bills, don't they?

  4. #114
    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, Ohio
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    407

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I'm extremely reliable.

    I'm not tainted by socialism.
    No, you aren't. You've been tainted by "holier than thou" right wing propaganda

    Minimum wage IS welfare.
    No it is a regulation. The money doesn't come from the government and so is not a social welfare program.

    Nothing. I don't have a problem with it, so long as my money isn't stolen to subsidize them.
    Your money isn't being stolen, it is being paid in the form of wages to workers. Minimum wage is not that much to ask. Healthcare benefits and god knows what else, is by far too much to demand of employers.

    Here's a better idea: if someone can't earn enough money to get married and support a family, they should either get a better job or not get married and have a family, especially when the alternative is the theft of money from their betters to pay for their inadequacies.
    No human being is worth more than another. Smarter, more successful, more resourceful, maybe, but not more valuable.



    They should strive to live on what they make, not demand to be paid what they need to live on.

    Know how people used to make wage demands on their employers? They'd apply for a job and ask "what's it pay?" If the pay wasn't enough, they'd go apply somewhere else.
    Except employers generall have no problem screwing their employees over, so if there was no minimum wage, there most likely would be no decent paying job.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

  5. #115
    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, Ohio
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    407

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, it can't.

    By definition, wages in capitalism are the agreement between the employer and employee, not the fiat command of the elites.
    And employers show concern with their hundreds of employees and actuallly negotiate with them since when? So it should be the fiat command of the rich elites? Give me a break.

    You should read the Ninth Amendment, then the rest of the Constitution.

    The "right to feed family" clause isn't in the Constitution, hence the "right to feed family" is not a legitimate basis for a federal minimum wage. The right to feed family doesn't actually exist, since no right exists that commands the interference in another person's private business.
    You're right, but the health and well being of a large population of U.S. citizens is a legitimate basis for it.

    No, Joe the strawberry-picker would do best to keep his pecker in his pants until he can afford to start a family. It's not his employer's problem.

    You are aware of what a job is, aren't you? Can you define the term? You socialists seem to have immense difficulty with this concept.
    I don't deny that the individual needs to be responsible and plan financially to support a family, but if there was no minimum wage law there would not be enough or possibly any decent paying jobs for the average Joe.

    Yes I know what a job is. Someone works for someone else and is paid in an amount worthy of that work. I am not a socialist. I support capitalism and a relatively free market. I do however believe in some regulations of that market. Minimum wage is one such regulation I think is necessary to prevent a workforce wide problem of unfair wages. If there is no regulation, companies will undervalue the labor, and other companies will see that they can charge less, so they will. It is a cycle.

    Sure it does. It certainly doesn't mean his employer has to pay him more than his labor is worth. The employer's family has to pay their cell phone bills, don't they?
    No they don't. If they can't pay their workers decently and afford their cell phones they should go without cell phones. This fits your mentality. If the worker should go without children because he can't afford them, then the employer should definately have to go without a cell phone.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

  6. #116
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I guess because it's thought increased poverty levels in the country would be worse for the economy? How is it theft if the individuals are performing work for the employer? What jobs other then those that require the competency of an 8 year old offer minimum wage?

    Should we eliminate the minimum wage and start building massive cardboard slums like Mumbai to house those making an unlivable means at work?
    That's nothing but a straw man (because most people in this country make more than minimum wage). I asked why the responsibility for providing for someone's livelihood must be given to an employer and not to the employee. What's the moral justification?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #117
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    It does qualify as for the general welfare, because at the time it was passed, nearly every industrial worker in the entire United States was being paid an unlivable wage.
    You're making the old fatal flaw. Those wages seemed "unlivable" by today's standards. You have to look in history and see if those people were making more than their parents. If they were, then we were successful, and we didn't need minimum wage.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #118
    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Marietta, Ohio
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    407

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You're making the old fatal flaw. Those wages seemed "unlivable" by today's standards. You have to look in history and see if those people were making more than their parents. If they were, then we were successful, and we didn't need minimum wage.
    They couldn't afford decent food or a decent place to live. Read a history book.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

  9. #119
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    We are talking about minimum wage, not welfare. Minimum wage doesn't require the average person to help anyone.
    It forces the employer to be charitable, and at that point you don't call it charity do you? Sounds like intimidation to me.

    Someone has to do those bottom level jobs, and they should be able to feed their family on it. I'm not saying they need $7.65 an hour to do that, I'm just saying they should be able to live on what they make.
    Why is no one speaking for the employer here? He's getting cheated out of his property under such a theft scheme.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #120
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    They couldn't afford decent food or a decent place to live. Read a history book.
    You're still making the same flaw and comparing those living standards to today's standards. You need to compare those standards to the standards of previous generations.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

Page 12 of 21 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •