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Thread: Washington to California: Drop dead

  1. #91
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But why do they deserve that when they don't produce that much for their employer? It sounds more like theft/abuse.
    I guess because it's thought increased poverty levels in the country would be worse for the economy? How is it theft if the individuals are performing work for the employer? What jobs other then those that require the competency of an 8 year old offer minimum wage?

    Should we eliminate the minimum wage and start building massive cardboard slums like Mumbai to house those making an unlivable means at work?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I guess because it's thought increased poverty levels in the country would be worse for the economy? How is it theft if the individuals are performing work for the employer? What jobs other then those that require the competency of an 8 year old offer minimum wage?

    Should we eliminate the minimum wage and start building massive cardboard slums like Mumbai to house those making an unlivable means at work?
    If the job is worth three bucks an hour (that means the employer is able to find someone willing to do it at that wage), then being forced to pay eight bucks an hour by the government with the machine guns is a theft of five bucks an hour, plus taxes on that five bucks.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    I agree with most of your other statements, but I have to take issue with this one.

    Article I, Section 8-Powers Granted to Congress
    1.Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

    Although this power pertains mostly to taxes it also implies the power to provide for the general welfare. At the time the minimum wage law was passed, workers needed this kind of government action to make wages that were actually sufficient to support thier family. If we removed the law, we might see a resurgance in un-sufficient wages, though this is unlikely. However, it remains true that providing for the security of workers lively-hoods does qualify as providing for the general welfare.

    As proof that Congress can pass minimum wage laws to carry out it's power to provide for the general welfare I submit the following.

    Article I, Section 8- Powers Granted to Congress
    18-To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers and all other powers granted by this Constitution in the Government of the United Statees, or any Department or officer thereof.

    This excerpt reinforces my point my indicating that Congress can pass laws to provide for the general welfare as that is one of the powers granted in the first excerpted section.

    Yeah, the usual tardish abuse and ignorance of what the phrase "general welfare" means, as expected.

    Sorry, your argument is sooooo old, soooooo refuted, soooo tarnished, that I'm not wasting my time with it today.

    The Constitution does not simultaneously LIMIT government authority to specific areas and grant it a blank check to do everything.

    Your argument suffered MASSIVE fail.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    He doesn't believe that Wickard v. Filburn occurred. Don't bother.
    Never even heard of it.

    What I do believe is that you've just argued from authority, and hence FAILED.

    Hint: Courts **** up.

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Since California dug its own hole, they can dig themselves out of it. No sympathy from me.

  6. #96
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If the job is worth three bucks an hour (that means the employer is able to find someone willing to do it at that wage), then being forced to pay eight bucks an hour by the government with the machine guns is a theft of five bucks an hour, plus taxes on that five bucks.
    The job is worth what the lowest person is willing to work for it and the quality of work the employer is willing to accept.

    It's worth $3/hour to illegal immigrants. It may be worth $10/hour to legal workers.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yeah, the usual tardish abuse and ignorance of what the phrase "general welfare" means, as expected.

    Sorry, your argument is sooooo old, soooooo refuted, soooo tarnished, that I'm not wasting my time with it today.

    The Constitution does not simultaneously LIMIT government authority to specific areas and grant it a blank check to do everything.

    Your argument suffered MASSIVE fail.
    The usual complete lack of evidence to back up your point. Where is it refuted, and by whom? You? Sorry, not a legitimate source.

    The Constitution left the governement space to do what it needed to to protect U.S. citizens, while limiting some of its scope. The Supreme Court disagrees with you friend, and they have a great deal more knowledge on the matter than you do.

    Your disagreement doesn't make my comment a massive fail.

    General welfare means the general well-being of the United States and its citizens. Minimum wage falls under this.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    The usual complete lack of evidence to back up your point. Where is it refuted, and by whom? You? Sorry, not a legitimate source.

    The Constitution left the governement space to do what it needed to to protect U.S. citizens, while limiting some of its scope. The Supreme Court disagrees with you friend, and they have a great deal more knowledge on the matter than you do.

    Your disagreement doesn't make my comment a massive fail.

    General welfare means the general well-being of the United States and its citizens. Minimum wage falls under this.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you here, general welfare and minimum wage have no connection to each other.

    If everyone were paid an unlivable wage you would have a point, but some jobs are not worth minimum wage.

    One job in particular is a janitor, it is an incredibly easy job that doesn't require any training to do.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Advisor wbreese91's Avatar
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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you here, general welfare and minimum wage have no connection to each other.

    If everyone were paid an unlivable wage you would have a point, but some jobs are not worth minimum wage.

    One job in particular is a janitor, it is an incredibly easy job that doesn't require any training to do.
    I am not arguing that our particular wage rate is reasonable, I am arguing that Congress has the authority to pass a minimum wage law. It does qualify as for the general welfare, because at the time it was passed, nearly every industrial worker in the entire United States was being paid an unlivable wage. Now, this is not the case, but we also still have the minimum wage laws, so there is no way to know what would happen if they were repealed.

    I would also tell you to spend a week as a janitor and see how "easy" it is. Then tell me if they don't deserve minimum wage
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: Washington to California: Drop dead

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    The usual complete lack of evidence to back up your point.
    Sorry, the Constitution exists on line and I'm not your mother and I don't hold hands.

    Learn basic english, read the Constituiton, and the refutation of the nonsense you spew is right there.

    So long as you continue to read into the Constitution things it does not say, things it cannot logically mean, you'll continue to be wrong.

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