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Madoff Sentenced to 150 Years

Redress said:
Madoff is a threat to society. Talk to the people who lost the money they had set aside for their retirement if he is a threat. Ask the charities that will be able to do less if he is a threat.

It's also important to send a message. If you do things like this, you will not just get a slap on the wrist. That is a key message.
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I have to disagree. I just don't see the threat to society over someone who is a violent criminal.

So you say this is supposed to send a message, I guess sentencing violent criminals a couple years sends the message violence and murder is more acceptable than stealing people's money. Because money is more important than lives.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I have very little sympathy for the "victims", it was incredibly stupid on their part to invest all their money with a hedge fund.
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Which has nothing to do with what he did. Trying to justify a criminals actions because the victim is less than bright is kinda lame. He is still a criminal who took advantage of people and ruined a lot of those people.
 
Redress said:
I started typing out a rebuttal about how many people where harmed my Madoff, about comparing apples to oranges, about the difference between several hundred and billions, but the truth is, I doubt you would even be able to see the point, and it would all be wasted.
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So, you think that a person losing their loved one's life, or being screwed out of a few thousand dollars isn't as bad being screwed out of a million dollars?

Before a person can get screwed out of a million bucks, they first have to have a million bucks to give to a con-man. That would make them a millionare. Millionares, typically, aren't millionares because they're stupid. I doubt they gave Madoff ALL their money. I'm betting that they have a few million more where that came from and I doubt any of them are destitute and living on the street.

Don't get confused, I'm not defending, or downplaying what Madoff did. I think he deserves the time he got. All I'm saying, is that we need to see these kind of sentences for people who commit rape and murder.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't know, it seems a bit excessive.

It seems to be an emotional revenge sentence more than anything else.
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The judge said he wanted to send a message out there to anyone else who thinks they can pull this kind of crap. Sentences should be a deterrent to future behavior, I think.
 
Redress said:
Which has nothing to do with what he did. Trying to justify a criminals actions because the victim is less than bright is kinda lame. He is still a criminal who took advantage of people and ruined a lot of those people.
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I'm not justifying it, I'm saying his sentence is a bit excessive.

To make a ruling based on emotion isn't justice.
 
americanwoman said:
I have to disagree. I just don't see the threat to society over someone who is a violent criminal.

So you say this is supposed to send a message, I guess sentencing violent criminals a couple years sends the message violence and murder is more acceptable than stealing people's money. Because money is more important than lives.
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So a hacker breaks into a banks records and erases all of them, or turns off all the traffic lights in a city or injects a nasty virus into the governments computers. Are they not a threat to society too? Hey, they are nonviolent...

And you won't get anywhere with me arguing that sentences for violent criminals are not harsh enough. I agree.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I'm not justifying it, I'm saying his sentence is a bit excessive.

To make a ruling based on emotion isn't justice.
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I do not think the ruling was made on emotion. It strikes me as being based on cold hard reality. Madoff's plea for leniency was an attempt at a ruling based on emotion.
 
americanwoman said:
So you don't mind your tax money going to non-violent life sentences over people who are actually threats to society?
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Not at all, to be frank. Why? Because we have been quite soft on white collar crime and based-on what has happened to the economy, it's time that these fraudulant, lying, and cheating bastards get what they deserve.

For 25 years, my brother has worked for a high tech company that had cooked the books and gave themselves big-assed bonuses year-after-year. They are now in bankruptcy, and my brother, along with all of the other peeons, will not only lose his job, but also his pension. It does not feel good starting all over at 45, especially know that they ones that screwed you over are living high on the hog.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I'm not justifying it, I'm saying his sentence is a bit excessive.

To make a ruling based on emotion isn't justice.
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How is it based on emotion? I believe that was the maximum years for the number of crimes he had committed. He's applying the law to the facts, which allow for this. It would be one thing if the maximum sentence was 10 years, and he said, "No, I am sentencing you to 150 years."
 
aps said:
The judge said he wanted to send a message out there to anyone else who thinks they can pull this kind of crap. Sentences should be a deterrent to future behavior, I think.
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I agree they should as well, but the judge isn't supposed to send a message.
The judge is to decide a sentence based on the crime.
He defrauded people, which is bad, but 150 years is excessive.

Madoff's assets will be seized, outside of his jail sentence people will be made somewhat whole.
 
Redress said:
So a hacker breaks into a banks records and erases all of them, or turns off all the traffic lights in a city or injects a nasty virus into the governments computers. Are they not a threat to society too? Hey, they are nonviolent...

And you won't get anywhere with me arguing that sentences for violent criminals are not harsh enough. I agree.
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And that hacker isn't going to get slapped with a 150 year sentence, either.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I agree they should as well, but the judge isn't supposed to send a message.
The judge is to decide a sentence based on the crime.
He defrauded people, which is bad, but 150 years is excessive.

Madoff's assets will be seized, outside of his jail sentence people will be made somewhat whole.
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The judge isn't supposed to send a message? I can't imagine that is a correct statement.

Nevertheless, I understand your opinion that it's excessive and your bases for the determination.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Ummm, these people were millionaires.

To invest in a hedge fund you have to have a minimum amount of money.
If I remember correctly, it has to be several million dollars or you have to have an income of $500k a year.

I'd generally call these people educated, well informed, possibly savvy.
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Wrong. Some were, but many were not.

These "people" were hospitals, charities, universities, and ordinary working people's mutual funds.
 
Redress said:
I do not think the ruling was made on emotion. It strikes me as being based on cold hard reality. Madoff's plea for leniency was an attempt at a ruling based on emotion.
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His pleas should be ignored.

aps said:
How is it based on emotion? I believe that was the maximum years for the number of crimes he had committed. He's applying the law to the facts, which allow for this. It would be one thing if the maximum sentence was 10 years, and he said, "No, I am sentencing you to 150 years."
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It seems to be a revenge sentence. Just my opinion.
This kind of stuff strokes the wealth envy crowd's emotions.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It seems to be a revenge sentence. Just my opinion.
This kind of stuff strokes the wealth envy crowd's emotions.
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That's exactly what this was. This has, "we'll show you rich bastards!", written all over it.
 
apdst said:
All I'm saying, is that we need to see these kind of sentences for people who commit rape and murder.
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We don't????

Each case is different, no? I have see sentences higher than 200 years for murder, so again, I have no idea hat you're getting at. This is the Madoff thread. If you think his crime does not fit the time, then say why. Generalizing murder sentences is not an argument.
 
Middleground said:
We don't????

Each case is different, no? I have see sentences higher than 200 years for murder, so again, I have no idea hat you're getting at. This is the Madoff thread. If you think his crime does not fit the time, then say why. Generalizing murder sentences is not an argument.
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On average a rapist, or a murderer wouldn't get 150 years. Prove me wrong.

If you think his crime does not fit the time, then say why.
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I've already said, twice, that I believe Madoff got what he deserved. Please read the full content of my posts before commenting. Thank you.
 
Middleground said:
Not at all, to be frank. Why? Because we have been quite soft on white collar crime and based-on what has happened to the economy, it's time that these fraudulant, lying, and cheating bastards get what they deserve.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree these guys are low life scum. I just think it is a little excessive.


For 25 years, my brother has worked for a high tech company that had cooked the books and gave themselves big-assed bonuses year-after-year. They are now in bankruptcy, and my brother, along with all of the other peeons, will not only lose his job, but also his pension. It does not feel good starting all over at 45, especially know that they ones that screwed you over are living high on the hog.
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I feel bad for your brother, truly I do. Those guys should be punished and made to pay back everything to the workers and then some. This is different though because he worked for them and didn't hand it over.
 
Gill said:
Wrong. Some were, but many were not.

These "people" were hospitals, charities, universities, and ordinary working people's mutual funds.
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All of those institutions should NOT be investing in hedge funds.
Their finance managers should be fired for making incredibly huge risky investments.

Remember the #1 rule of investing, never put all your eggs in one basket.
 
apdst said:
I've already said, twice, that I believe Madoff got what he deserved. Please read the full content of my posts before commenting. Thank you.
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Cool. Then we are on the same page.

I'd be more than happy to comment on another thread regarding sentences for murderers and rapists if you want to start one.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
All of those institutions should NOT be investing in hedge funds.
Their finance managers should be fired for making incredibly huge risky investments.

Remember the #1 rule of investing, never put all your eggs in one basket.
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This is especially true unless it is FDIC insured.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
All of those institutions should NOT be investing in hedge funds.
Their finance managers should be fired for making incredibly huge risky investments.

Remember the #1 rule of investing, never put all your eggs in one basket.
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Why not?? Hundreds of people like this invest in hedge funds. There are lot's of completely legitimate hedge funds.Many of these people didn't put their money directly with Madoff.

How do you know they put all their eggs in one basket.
 
Gill said:
Why not?? Hundreds of people like this invest in hedge funds. There are lot's of completely legitimate hedge funds.Many of these people didn't put their money directly with Madoff.
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Hedge funds are lightly regulated precisely because there is great amount of assumed risk involved with them.
That is why they have income and minimum net worth requirements.

If the money was invested by an agent of the investor that person is liable for damages because they haven't done their due diligence with investing others money.

Gill said:
How do you know they put all their eggs in one basket.
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If someone is ruined because of one investment faltering, they at least have a large chunk of their money invested.

Hedge funds are risky, there is a For Dummies guide that costs about $20 that could have explained everything they needed to know about investing with them.
 
150 years?
This is outrageous!
One third off for good behavior, and in 100 years this scum will be out. :thumbdown
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Hedge funds are lightly regulated precisely because there is great amount of assumed risk involved with them.
That is why they have income and minimum net worth requirements.

If the money was invested by an agent of the investor that person is liable for damages because they haven't done their due diligence with investing others money.



If someone is ruined because of one investment faltering, they at least have a large chunk of their money invested.

Hedge funds are risky, there is a For Dummies guide that costs about $20 that could have explained everything they needed to know about investing with them.
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That is all fine and good as long as the guy runing it is not running a ponzi scheme.
 
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