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Thread: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anything supporting the legitimacy of Chavez's election?
    You didn't post the requested information about the alleged illegitimacy of his election. You posted an openly biased source that made apparently baseless allegations about the recall (not any of his elections), as well as a study that I've not yet had time to thoroughly examine and thus cannot yet comment on. Post information that provides sound evidence of the illegitimacy of Chavez's elections rather than overtly biased sources. That should be a hint for you not to post anything from Sumate.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When a president, who is booty buddies with more than one dictator in the region, attempts to illegally remove term limits, it's safe to consider that the beginning of a hostile/illegal takeover of the government. Obviously, that's what the Honduran Congress did.
    Not at all. There was not a clear or apparent constitutional process for his removal even at the early stage of this dispute, let alone a provision for his violent removal and deportation. If you're concerned about constitutional violations, the forcible ousting of a democratically elected president should be of greater concern to you than a planning procedure for a nonbinding referendum. It's not clear what "dictators" you're referring to, incidentally, but in light of your previous incorporation of openly biased sources, nothing would surprise me now.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What world leaders? Chavez? Castro? I take their oppostion to this situation as a sign that the Honduran congress did the right thing.
    Actually, Obama and the UN council have all called for his return.

    World tells Honduras to reinstate ousted president - Yahoo! News

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Actually, I haven't seen anyone regard this action as anything other than an anti-democratic coup other than the participants.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You didn't post the requested information about the alleged illegitimacy of his election. You posted an openly biased source that made apparently baseless allegations about the recall (not any of his elections), as well as a study that I've not yet had time to thoroughly examine and thus cannot yet comment on. Post information that provides sound evidence of the illegitimacy of Chavez's elections rather than overtly biased sources. That should be a hint for you not to post anything from Sumate.
    Yes, I did. You chose to shoot the messanger. So far, you've failed to post anything, credible, or not, that support's Chavez's legitimacy.



    Not at all. There was not a clear or apparent constitutional process for his removal even at the early stage of this dispute, let alone a provision for his violent removal and deportation. If you're concerned about constitutional violations, the forcible ousting of a democratically elected president should be of greater concern to you than a planning procedure for a nonbinding referendum. It's not clear what "dictators" you're referring to, incidentally, but in light of your previous incorporation of openly biased sources, nothing would surprise me now.
    This is from tlmorg's article:

    Zelaya was arrested and flown to Costa Rica hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of Honduras' courts and Congress. His opponents claimed the vote was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.
    World tells Honduras to reinstate ousted president - Yahoo! News
    Obviously, the courts said he couldn't do it; the congress said he couldn't do it; so, they decided to kick his butt out of office. I just don't have a problem with this.


    Posted by tlmorg2:Actually, Obama and the UN council have all called for his return.
    We're seeing more and more whose side PBO is on, so his opinion is becoming just as irrelevant as Chavez's and I'm not even going to go into how useless the UN is. But, ultimately, "the world", isn't calling for Zelaya's reinstatement.
    Last edited by apdst; 06-29-09 at 04:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, I did. You chose to shoot the messanger. So far, you've failed to post anything, credible, or not, that support's Chavez's legitimacy.
    You have not yet posted the requested information. I asked you to post something that evidenced the illegitimacy of Chavez's elections; you instead posted something regarding the 2004 recall attempt that was overtly biased and did not provide an independent or objective source for the assertions provided therein.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously, the courts said he couldn't do it; the congress said he couldn't do it; so, they decided to kick his butt out of office. I just don't have a problem with this.
    That's because you evidently have a greater interest in ideological partisanship than consistent opposition to constitutional violations. You'll condemn an action so trivial as preparation for a nonbinding referendum because politically motivated individuals in the judiciary oppose it, but you'll not condemn the forcible removal and deportation of an elected head of state even though there was no clear constitutional provision for his peaceable removal.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're seeing more and more whose side PBO is on, so his opinion is becoming just as irrelevant as Chavez's and I'm not even going to go into how useless the UN is. But, ultimately, "the world", isn't calling for Zelaya's reinstatement.
    That is a factually inaccurate assertion. There has been opposition expressed to the coup by representatives of the United Nations, the Organization of American States, Paraguay, the European Union, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Germany, Guatemala, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Peru, Spain, the United Kingdom, the United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela. Conversely, I have not heard of support for the coup from any nation or government representatives.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You have not yet posted the requested information. I asked you to post something that evidenced the illegitimacy of Chavez's elections; you instead posted something regarding the 2004 recall attempt that was overtly biased and did not provide an independent or objective source for the assertions provided therein.
    I've been through this thread three times and I don't see any links in any of your posts supporting your claim that Chavez is the legitimate executive in Venezuela.



    That's because you evidently have a greater interest in ideological partisanship than consistent opposition to constitutional violations. You'll condemn an action so trivial as preparation for a nonbinding referendum because politically motivated individuals in the judiciary oppose it, but you'll not condemn the forcible removal and deportation of an elected head of state even though there was no clear constitutional provision for his peaceable removal.
    And, when one reads your sig, it's easy to understand how you would be so willing to defend any Leftist leader and denounce his removal based on your own political beliefs with not supporting evidence to defend your position.



    That is a factually inaccurate assertion. There has been opposition expressed to the coup by representatives of the United Nations, the Organization of American States, Paraguay, the European Union, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Germany, Guatemala, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Peru, Spain, the United Kingdom, the United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela. Conversely, I have not heard of support for the coup from any nation or government representatives.
    Let's see some links supporting the suggestion of all that support. Half those countries are just as irrelevant as the UN and Venezuela.

    I find it frightening how these same countries didn't support the frreedom movement in Iran, yet wanna be all hands when it comes to Honduras.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've been through this thread three times and I don't see any links in any of your posts supporting your claim that Chavez is the legitimate executive in Venezuela.
    I specifically requested evidence of the illegitimacy of his elections. You posted an overtly biased opinion piece from a partisan source that made unsupported allegations, but was not about any of his elections nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, when one reads your sig, it's easy to understand how you would be so willing to defend any Leftist leader and denounce his removal based on your own political beliefs with not supporting evidence to defend your position.
    Such a conclusion indicates a lack of familiarity with political economy and theory. Kropotkin's anarchism, as well as my own, necessitates ultimate opposition to the state and its fixtures.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Let's see some links supporting the suggestion of all that support. Half those countries are just as irrelevant as the UN and Venezuela.
    That's quite simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I find it frightening how these same countries didn't support the frreedom movement in Iran, yet wanna be all hands when it comes to Honduras.
    Obviously. The reason for that is partisan opposition to an elected head of state for the purpose of which you're willing to sacrifice consistency, though if you were familiar with the precise ideological beliefs of Mir-Hussein Mousavi, I suspect you'd support his campaign less enthusiastically also.

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    What conceivable relation could that have to an action that is at its core anti-democratic? Chavez is of course also democratically elected and significantly more libertarian in nature than popularly conceived, but even that isn't directly relevant here.
    Yea right and I'm the next King of Sweden and will over throw the United States in the Year 2012

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You didn't post the requested information about the alleged illegitimacy of his election.
    Tascon List/Maisanta Program

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    Re: Claim: Leftist leader assassinated in Honduras

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Yea right and I'm the next King of Sweden and will over throw the United States in the Year 2012
    I knew you were up to something!

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