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Thread: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    The fact that it's a 5-4 ruling would indicate that her ruling isn't all that "wrong." I'd be concerned if it was a 9-0 or 8-1 ruling. So her ruling must have some basis in law.
    First of all I view this as the correct ruling. I am sure that the four who were against this ruling did render their own opinion based upon some basis in law as did the majority. These guys interpret. When they interpret the way we as individuals like we say hey yeh !! When we don't like the ruling we can dust off the old impeach Earl Warren signs, change the name and have a great time.

    APS you are very correct that if the decision was 9-0 or 8-1 she would be hobbled worse in the hearings than her broken ankle hobbled her. Yet the fact is plain she was on the wrong side of this decision and that will come up and the ineteresting part will be how she handles it, or doesn't.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    From what I have read on this, it's actually a kinda interesting ruling. It seems to create a new standard by which to judge things. Likelihood of being sued is not the proper standard, but likelihood of losing the suit.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    She's already stated that her race will bring something extra to the table, so it's easy to see that she's going to base here rulings on race rather than the rule of law.
    Does amyone know what race she is ? I heard her labled as a Latina but Latino is not a race. She looks sort of whitetish. She has a touch of probably American Native Indian and I am sure there is Spanish there. So which race will she bring into her decisions ? White or Ameircan Indian ?

    Wonder if they will ask her during the hearing. I could just hear the senile old Robert Byrd ask "Miss Sotomayor are you a Colored Girl or are you one of them Injuns ?" . Anyhow could be interesting.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Does amyone know what race she is ? I heard her labled as a Latina but Latino is not a race. She looks sort of whitetish. She has a touch of probably American Native Indian and I am sure there is Spanish there. So which race will she bring into her decisions ? White or Ameircan Indian ?

    Wonder if they will ask her during the hearing. I could just hear the senile old Robert Byrd ask "Miss Sotomayor are you a Colored Girl or are you one of them Injuns ?" . Anyhow could be interesting.
    Out there PC Land, Latino is a race. I don't agree with that notion either; kinda like saying that paint horses are a breed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Good Evening All,

    This is my first post and it will be a question. First though, I will say that I agree with today's USSC decision.

    As I understand this case, New Haven threw out the test for fear of being sued. As a consequence of this decision, they were sued. So they had to defend themselves all of the way to the Supreme Court which must have cost alot of money. Here then is my question.

    Had the city decided to certify the test and then invested all of the money that has been consumed in legal expenses in meaninful training and skill improvement for the members of the Fire Department, might not all of New Haven citizens been better served?

    I must be missing something here so will appreciate any and all enlightenment.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    Good Evening All,

    This is my first post and it will be a question. First though, I will say that I agree with today's USSC decision.

    As I understand this case, New Haven threw out the test for fear of being sued. As a consequence of this decision, they were sued. So they had to defend themselves all of the way to the Supreme Court which must have cost alot of money. Here then is my question.

    Had the city decided to certify the test and then invested all of the money that has been consumed in legal expenses in meaninful training and skill improvement for the members of the Fire Department, might not all of New Haven citizens been better served?

    I must be missing something here so will appreciate any and all enlightenment.

    Well if the Elm City fathers did what you said and used the money they did not spend on law suits but instead on training and if they used all of that money on the Black firefighters they would get sued again by he White firefighters. If they used it on the Whites the Blacks would sue. If they distibuted the training among all races the Blacks would sue since New Haven would be accused of not suporting afirmative action.

    This firefigher thing is a hot issue. !!
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 06-29-09 at 09:30 PM.
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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Funny, I thought the title should have read: Justices side with civil rights in the firefighter bias case"

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Well if the Elm City fathers did what you said and used the money they did not spend on law suits but instead on training and if they used all of that money on the Black firefighters they would get sued again by he White firefighters. If they used it on the Whites the Blacks would sue. If they distibuted the training among all races the Blacks would sue since New Haven would be accused of not suporting afirmative action.

    This firefigher thing is a hot issue. !!
    I understand what you are saying HyperSabr and regretfully, I am reasonably confident that you are correct. I think that what concerns me is how apathetically the certainty of what you say is accepted as just "the way things are".

    To be sure "This firefighter thing is a hot issue." and what we all know is that the certain way to elevate this or any other issue to the status of "hot issue" is to bring a legal suit. Is this, however, the expectation of the governed each time they express their consent to be governed by their vote? I would hope not. I would hope that their expectation is to have conflicts within the community resolved through wise leadership not litigation.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    I understand what you are saying HyperSabr and regretfully, I am reasonably confident that you are correct. I think that what concerns me is how apathetically the certainty of what you say is accepted as just "the way things are".

    To be sure "This firefighter thing is a hot issue." and what we all know is that the certain way to elevate this or any other issue to the status of "hot issue" is to bring a legal suit. Is this, however, the expectation of the governed each time they express their consent to be governed by their vote? I would hope not. I would hope that their expectation is to have conflicts within the community resolved through wise leadership not litigation.
    Well I guess if war is the child of a failure of diplomacy I guess litigation can be viewed as a failure of leadership to negotiate or a failure of negotiations.
    My feeling is that this issue just may be more of a battle between institutionalized /entrenched affirmative action vs reason and common sense which in turn is fighting afirmative action which has outlived it's purpose.

    I also hate to see useless litigative action but there are times such as this when the continuation of a cure for past wrong contunues longer than necessary and in itself creates an new/opoosite wrong litigation may be the only recoursr of the newly wronged.

    ps I welcome you aboard even though I am rather new here myself. You appear to be an intelligent debater sounds as if you will add good stuff here.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 06-29-09 at 11:01 PM.
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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    My question, in light of this decision, is whether Sotomayor made her ruling colored by emotion rather than by the law. If this is the case, then she should not be confirmed.
    The four justices in the minority adopted the panel's reasoning, so this didn't indicate that they were out of the mainstream. Whether you think it was based on emotion rather than law depends on your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I am more interested in her explanation of why she sought to dispose of the matter with a perfunctory summary opinion that ignored every issue in the case.

    That is her most grievous error in the Ricci case--that she utterly failed to do what appellate judges are supposed to do: interpret the law.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Just think, if she was already confirmed, it would have been the other way.


    Scary.
    No, it wouldn't have. She would have replaced Breyer, who held the exact same position as her. It still would have been 5-4.

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Good ruling, this should sink her confirmation and Obama will be forced to pick a centrist judge.
    Why would this sink her? She had the same position as the minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    What a fascinating scenario that would have been. If it was a tie.....RightatNYU, remind me, the appeals court decision then stands, yes? (I'm too lazy to look it up.)
    If the SC deadlocks, the lower court's ruling stands, though it wouldn't have mattered here because it would have been 5-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Why do you people ignore the more interesting bit here.

    The SCOTUS issue long and lengthy opinions on this issue.

    Sotomayor issued less then a paragraph. Her worth was proven by this case, she's a minor league lightweight compared to what is required of a Justice.
    The fact that the panel issued a summary order doesn't indicate that she was a lightweight.

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    Funny, I thought the title should have read: Justices side with civil rights in the firefighter bias case"
    I thought it was strange how every single headline I've seen makes it sound like the court is a bunch of white supremacists.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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