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Thread: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

  1. #141
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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    Now back to the points you raise. You identify the clustering of the "opressed groups", poverty, poor education, high crime and lack of role models. OK, let's take a look at these challenges.

    Lack of role models. Clearly there are "non-oppressed" role models out there. Why do you suppose their examples are not acceptable? Is it "cultural differences"?
    Must be. Clarence Thomas is derided as an "Uncle Tom" (by people who haven't read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Steroid shooting athletes are lauded, as well as former athletes who've turned to murder as a new career.

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    OK, let's suppose that it is, then where shall the role models come from?
    A family has to choose who the child's role models will be, up to a certain age, anyway. The ideal role models are ....Mommy and Daddy, living TOGETHER in the same house, without abuse of any sort. Then there are the outside RM's. Athletes and musicians and gangsters aren't, shall we say, ideal. But it's up the family and the child. Can't be imposed by no honkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    High crime. OK, can you make two meaningful suggestions as to how to address this issue? Quite honestly, I am at a loss.
    Easy. End the ridiculous citywide bans on firearm ownership and concealed carry, and quit demoninzing the so-called "Saturday Night Specials". A woman with a cheap .22 handgun in her pocket is a thousand times safer than a woman with a $500 Blackberry. For some reason muggers and rapists aren't afraid of cell phones, but an angry woman with a gun? Watchout.

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    Poor education, indeed. To begin, as you have so effectively argued in this thread, we can't measure because we can't test (OH Bush (and Kennedy), what folly your no child left behind!). We have an incredibly well funded education system (compared to other countries) managed and administered by a self-interested labor union (how is that working out?) which for 55 years (Brown vs Board of Ed 1954) continues to fall back on the same old whines. Forget political parties for a moment, what would you suggest any caring citizen advocate so that we don't have to carry this burden for yet another 55 years?
    Gee, how many people know that Thomas Sowell was a public school graduate from a poor black neighborhood? You see, that was before the elites started fixing education, so teachers actually taught and students were expected to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    At some point, an "oppressed people" must find the internal strength to say "OK, today I am going to start to look after myself". Trust me, anyone who does that and stumbles, for whatever reason, will find many of us "conservatives" rushing to their sides to help them back to their feet so that they can continue on their own way! That is who we are and what we believe in.
    Well, the answer to your question is that the Oppressed elected their Messiah, and they're waiting to be Saved. DIY is simply not in their vocabulary. Most of them probably never even heard the song.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not biological, it's cultural. When you grow up around people who speak a bastardized form of the english language as an example, you will have a harder time following a standard english question.
    I grew up speaking a bastardized form of English; "yorn", and, "chunder" and terms such as that. I never had a problem passing standard English tests, unless the tests were above my level of education, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    ....

    Yeah ... that is sort of a valid point.

    Even I have to admit you're making sense there.

    Oh well.

    Sotomayor got slapped across the face by the SCOTUS. I suppose that is enough.... for now!
    She really didn't get slapped across the face. Both sides went out of their way to avoid commenting on the panel's opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    those who are insisting the pending appointee is racist because the sc, by the narrowist of margins, refused to uphold a ruling in which she relied on legal precedent, would seem to instead prefer a judge who legislates from the bench. sotomayer refused to do that

    the lower court rulings, the decisions upheld by sotomayer, hinged on adhering to the concept of "disparate impact"

    the sc has now moved us away from that standard, creating new precedent to be followed

    new haven did all of the right things
    it made sure it did not discriminate by hiring a specialist to construct the exams in a way which would not confer a preference on minorities
    but when it found that the test results still fell outside the "disparate impact" standards, new haven found that it could not (then) lawfully rely on the test results to effect the promotions. had it moved forward and done so, new haven would have been subject to a discrimination lawsuit by the minorities, who were not promoted because they did not score high enough on the tests to merit consideration. the concept of "disparate impact", however much the disparate impact could be found unintended, offered a (then) sound premise for a discrimination suit by the low scoring minority applicants, should the promotions been awarded to the high scoring majority applicants
    new haven was caught in a classic catch 22
    the law prevented the city from doing the right thing
    and the sc has now revised the presedent so that reason can now prevail over "disparate impact"
    in no way does that sc decision indicate that sotomayer was, or is, biased
    what this matter does show is that sotomayer subscribes to the law when making her decisions
    This is because "disparate impact" and by proxy most of Title VII are a load of ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I agree. Sotomayor is a pathetic choice for a Supreme Court Justice. Her only qualification is her latina vagina.
    No, she's quite plainly qualified. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    One of the judges ginsberg I think stated in her dissent that the firemen "had the courts sympathy"....

    Courts are not suppsed to have "sympathy".....
    She was referring to the white firefighters, and was pointing out their position to make a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Their ****ty starting pay and "one of the highest costs of living in the nation" should have been a hint.

    Seriously, who wants to be a cop in New York?

    ..... TV fans...thats who.

    Or people who grew up in new york I guess.
    LTs in the NYPD make $120k and retire after 20 years with a half pension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not biological, it's cultural. When you grow up around people who speak a bastardized form of the english language as an example, you will have a harder time following a standard english question.

    Interestingly, in my hometown, which is both small and rural and does not have black/hispanic areas, race issues are much smaller than in urban areas with black and hispanic neighborhoods. When I grew up here, there was one black family in town, and I still know the kid from that family who was in my class in school. He feels way uncomfortable around black people from urban areas, he just does not fit in with them.
    As true as this may be, I believe that the proper way to deal with this is to do everything possible to increase early education and change the culture.

    What helps the community more: increased funding for elementary reading programs, or taking some 18 year old who should be attending Penn State and sending him to U Penn instead?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    As true as this may be, I believe that the proper way to deal with this is to do everything possible to increase early education and change the culture.

    What helps the community more: increased funding for elementary reading programs, or taking some 18 year old who should be attending Penn State and sending him to U Penn instead?
    Yes, I think that was what I was trying to say. Education to give the next generation more options to get out of the ghetto kinda thing.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is because "disparate impact" and by proxy most of Title VII are a load of ****.
    This is the usual rhetoric passed by dishonest business owners who do not want to be held responsible for their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No, she's quite plainly qualified. Sorry.
    Ummm... no.

    Her racist statments disqualify her.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    She was referring to the white firefighters, and was pointing out their position to make a point.
    If her point is that she hates white people, she made it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    LTs in the NYPD make $120k and retire after 20 years with a half pension.
    So? The exam is flawed and unfair. Throwing out the results was the cities way of avoiding a lawsuit by the minority candidates.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    As true as this may be, I believe that the proper way to deal with this is to do everything possible to increase early education and change the culture.
    Indeed. This is correct but I do not see it happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What helps the community more: increased funding for elementary reading programs, or taking some 18 year old who should be attending Penn State and sending him to U Penn instead?
    Funding education is never a bad thing.

    Being a racist, activist judge is a VERY bad thing.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, the SCOTUS can validate an individual's opinion by mere virtue of its opinion? Do you know what "an appeal to authority" is?
    ...

    Go away!


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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    LTs in the NYPD make $120k and retire after 20 years with a half pension.
    Find me someone who starts out in the NYPD as an LT and you'll have a point.

    I said starting pay.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    She really didn't get slapped across the face. Both sides went out of their way to avoid commenting on the panel's opinion.
    No matter how the left tries to spin it, she did get slapped in the face. Sotomayor wrote a single paragraph upholding the lower court's ruling. That was it. She did little to discuss the law or her reasoning in her summary paragraph.

    The dissenting opinion of the SCOTUS on the other hand would have sent it back to the lower court to consider a facet of the law that neither them nor Sotomayor took into consideration.

    SCOTUS's dissenting opinion did not agree with Sotomayor at all. She agreed with the lower court's rulilng, SCOTUS did not.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    This is the usual rhetoric passed by dishonest business owners who do not want to be held responsible for their actions.
    So you support Title VII and disparate impact?


    Ummm... no.

    Her racist statments disqualify her.

    If her point is that she hates white people, she made it.
    Oh, nevermind, I see that you think Title VII and disparate impact are ridiculous.

    So? The exam is flawed and unfair. Throwing out the results was the cities way of avoiding a lawsuit by the minority candidates.
    Wait - nevermind, I see that you think Title VII and disparate impact are great.

    Indeed. This is correct but I do not see it happening.

    Funding education is never a bad thing.

    Being a racist, activist judge is a VERY bad thing.
    And now you're back to hating it again.

    Hmm...with all those contradictions, one might almost get the impression that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Find me someone who starts out in the NYPD as an LT and you'll have a point.

    I said starting pay.
    Because there's low starting pay, that means that nobody would ever want to be a cop in NYC?

    Medical residents make $40k for working 80 hour weeks - does that mean only a moron would want to become a doctor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No matter how the left tries to spin it, she did get slapped in the face. Sotomayor wrote a single paragraph upholding the lower court's ruling. That was it. She did little to discuss the law or her reasoning in her summary paragraph.
    Sotomayor didn't write ****. She was on a 3 judge panel that wrote everything.

    The dissenting opinion of the SCOTUS on the other hand would have sent it back to the lower court to consider a facet of the law that neither them nor Sotomayor took into consideration.

    SCOTUS's dissenting opinion did not agree with Sotomayor at all. She agreed with the lower court's rulilng, SCOTUS did not.
    This is hardly a benchslap:

    Justice Ginsburgís dissent in passing takes the view that the panelís opinion followed prior Second Circuit precedent. Then the dissenters (in a footnote noted by Jonathan Adler that cites the district courtís discussion of existing Second Circuit precedent) elect not to remand ó which would have made the reversal 9-0 ó and instead explain why the city should prevail, albeit on a slightly different ground. But they avoid making their disagreement with the court of appeals particularly explicit (the difference is the thin one between whether the city reasonably believed it would be engaging in disparate impact discrimination and whether a court would agree with that belief), and they clearly agree with the bottom line of the Second Circuit, though they disagree with the standard seemingly set by prior Second Circuit precedent.

    ...

    In the end, it seems to me that the Supreme Courtís decision in Ricci is an outright rejection of the lower courtsí analysis of the case, including by Judge Sotomayor. But on the other hand, the Court recognizes that the issue was unsettled. The fact that the Courtís four more liberal members would affirm the Second Circuit shows that Judge Sotomayorís views were far from outlandish and put her in line with Judge Souter, who she will replace.
    What Ricci says about the Supreme Court’s views of Judge Sotomayor | SCOTUSblog
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  10. #150
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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Because there's low starting pay, that means that nobody would ever want to be a cop in NYC?
    No No No. You don't understand. Its my personal preference that keeps me from understanding why someone would want to work in that stinkin' city in the first place. The low pay is just the kicker. I personally prefer smaller cities and towns to ginormous cluster****s like NY.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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