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Thread: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

  1. #131
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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    I call it a lack of imagination.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    WTF? This doesn't make any sense and seems racist in itself.

    There is not a single test that a black man cannot perform as well as a white man if he studied equally and knows his ****.
    It's not biological, it's cultural. When you grow up around people who speak a bastardized form of the english language as an example, you will have a harder time following a standard english question.

    Interestingly, in my hometown, which is both small and rural and does not have black/hispanic areas, race issues are much smaller than in urban areas with black and hispanic neighborhoods. When I grew up here, there was one black family in town, and I still know the kid from that family who was in my class in school. He feels way uncomfortable around black people from urban areas, he just does not fit in with them.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yep. Fixing the problem requires people stepping up and being PARENTS as opposed to sperm donators and incubation tanks.
    I do not argue this at all. It is also(as an aside) one of the areas that Obama finds important. This is something that we as white people cannot do much to help the black community out. I think what we can do is help improve education in poor areas, which helps every one living in those areas, and improves options for the people in those areas as adults.

    We are getting way off topic though I fear.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not biological, it's cultural. When you grow up around people who speak a bastardized form of the english language as an example, you will have a harder time following a standard english question.
    OMFG now we have to print tests in ebonics? You have got to be ****ting me this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

    Its called high school english class, if they refused to participate, its their own damned fault, and our professional workplaces shouldn't be dumbed down because of it.


    Interestingly, in my hometown, which is both small and rural and does not have black/hispanic areas, race issues are much smaller than in urban areas with black and hispanic neighborhoods. When I grew up here, there was one black family in town, and I still know the kid from that family who was in my class in school. He feels way uncomfortable around black people from urban areas, he just does not fit in with them.
    No ****, because black people in urban areas are racist mother ****ers.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Read an article about this in my local paper.

    I heard about it here first, and noted that my local paper also used the term "reverse discrimination". Which IMO is total BS.

    As to the potential (and likely) new member of the supreme court, I personally, after seeing the little bit regarding her that I have, would prefer that she not become a member of it.
    Education.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not biological, it's cultural. When you grow up around people who speak a bastardized form of the english language as an example, you will have a harder time following a standard english question.
    So?

    If they can't speak the language properly, they fail tests that expect them to speak the language properly.

    Ain't a damn thing racist here.

    If they cannot do the task expected as it is expected to be performed, then they're not the right people to be doing the task.

    Since Fire Chiefs have to speak, in English, to firemen, then proper spoken English and proper understanding of properly written questions in the English language is a job requirement, and people who cannot or will not learn to fulfill the job requirements are not qualified for the job and no racism is involved, merely someone's laziness to study adequately.

    End of story.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Unfortunately Redress, it getting to be past this ol' man's bedtime so I am a'feered that this will be my last response tonight.

    To remain as up-front and honest as possible, I have very little, if any, interest in the presumed "position" of any "party", but I am most interested in your own personal opinions and judgments. The SOLE purpose of a party (IMHO) is to achieve and remain in power by whatever means. Their so called "positions" on issues have little relevance to the impovement of society.

    Now back to the points you raise. You identify the clustering of the "opressed groups", poverty, poor education, high crime and lack of role models. OK, let's take a look at these challenges.

    Lack of role models. Clearly there are "non-oppressed" role models out there. Why do you suppose their examples are not acceptable? Is it "cultural differences"? OK, let's suppose that it is, then where shall the role models come from? Do you feel that there is a lack of "support" agency at every level of government from village to town to city to county to state to national? Do we need even more support agencies to help the "oppressed" find their role models and begin to take some small modicum of responsibility for themselves?

    High crime. OK, can you make two meaningful suggestions as to how to address this issue? Quite honestly, I am at a loss. In the absence of a common culture, in the absence of a common ethic, in the absence of a common bond, in a society that glorifies "victimhood" and a concern for rights over responsibility, I honestly don't know where to start. The "oppressed" seem to show precious little interest in developing their own sense of community and completely reject any and all efforts to accept concepts from beyond the bounds of their own oppression so where would you suggest we begin to tackle this problem?

    Poor education, indeed. To begin, as you have so effectively argued in this thread, we can't measure because we can't test (OH Bush (and Kennedy), what folly your no child left behind!). We have an incredibly well funded education system (compared to other countries) managed and administered by a self-interested labor union (how is that working out?) which for 55 years (Brown vs Board of Ed 1954) continues to fall back on the same old whines. Forget political parties for a moment, what would you suggest any caring citizen advocate so that we don't have to carry this burden for yet another 55 years?

    And yes, you are right, poverty is a real downer. Today it is topical to recall the 1930's. Can you appreciate how many poor people there were in the country at that time? What happened to them? How might they be considered meaningful role-models? Listen, I understand that when I go on a job interview, I don't carry the badge of my racial identity in my skin color. I accept this as reality. But I must say that I remain to be convinced that more laws and more law suits and more brow-beatings of those that sit across the aisle is going to change this situation. At some point, an "oppressed people" must find the internal strength to say "OK, today I am going to start to look after myself". Trust me, anyone who does that and stumbles, for whatever reason, will find many of us "conservatives" rushing to their sides to help them back to their feet so that they can continue on their own way! That is who we are and what we believe in.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    Hi Redress,

    Thanks for such a wonderfully honest response.

    Do you share with me, however, the sense of sadness of it all? Here we are forty five years after Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still neither you (a liberal) nor I (a conservative) can point to a "race neutral" test.
    The SAT's were race neutral when I took them. Not one single question about life in da hood, no ebonics spelling, nothing but the straight English every student was expected to learn regardless of who their daddy was. If they were American citizens, they were expected, on that test, to have a minimum understanding of English, and that was that.

    If a given race failed to perform on a statistically equivalent basis with other races, it wasn't the test's fault.

    Jeez, hang it up people. The assumption that the TEST is racist if a certain demographic group does significantly worse on a language or math section of the test just defies logic. Certainly, it's possible to write a test that could play on the racial stereotypes and deliberately generate score disparities. But it does not logically follow that all tests with racial disparities in outcome are necessarily racially biased, but that is the argument the EEOC put forth, that is the argument the bigoted Latina Vagina concurred with, and that is the argument the USSC disposed of.

    The men who failed the New Haven Fire Chiefs exam failed for one reason.

    The dumb ****s didn't study enough.

    There will be another test for Chief some day again. If they study, maybe they can pass it.

    Any of you foolish enough to want to have the Fire Chief's test in your city dumbed down so people who don't study can pass it?

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    After 45 years and billions of dollars and the intellectual capacity of the finest elites of the nation isn't it possible that the wrong question is being asked or the wrong approach to the problem is being taken? After 45 years of effort at EEO, is it yet time to ask if there is a "better way"? Or do you continue to support the idea that we should continue milking this same old cow? If the latter, then to what end? 85% support in the general election, perhaps?
    Racism is over in America. Can't we finally just tell the brothers that failed that THEY failed because they didn't do enough to pass, or are we going to be forced forever to make excuses for the failures of others and accept fourth rate as the only rate allowed?

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by atomsNvoid View Post
    Unfortunately Redress, it getting to be past this ol' man's bedtime so I am a'feered that this will be my last response tonight.

    To remain as up-front and honest as possible, I have very little, if any, interest in the presumed "position" of any "party", but I am most interested in your own personal opinions and judgments. The SOLE purpose of a party (IMHO) is to achieve and remain in power by whatever means. Their so called "positions" on issues have little relevance to the impovement of society.

    Now back to the points you raise. You identify the clustering of the "opressed groups", poverty, poor education, high crime and lack of role models. OK, let's take a look at these challenges.

    Lack of role models. Clearly there are "non-oppressed" role models out there. Why do you suppose their examples are not acceptable? Is it "cultural differences"? OK, let's suppose that it is, then where shall the role models come from? Do you feel that there is a lack of "support" agency at every level of government from village to town to city to county to state to national? Do we need even more support agencies to help the "oppressed" find their role models and begin to take some small modicum of responsibility for themselves?

    High crime. OK, can you make two meaningful suggestions as to how to address this issue? Quite honestly, I am at a loss. In the absence of a common culture, in the absence of a common ethic, in the absence of a common bond, in a society that glorifies "victimhood" and a concern for rights over responsibility, I honestly don't know where to start. The "oppressed" seem to show precious little interest in developing their own sense of community and completely reject any and all efforts to accept concepts from beyond the bounds of their own oppression so where would you suggest we begin to tackle this problem?

    Poor education, indeed. To begin, as you have so effectively argued in this thread, we can't measure because we can't test (OH Bush (and Kennedy), what folly your no child left behind!). We have an incredibly well funded education system (compared to other countries) managed and administered by a self-interested labor union (how is that working out?) which for 55 years (Brown vs Board of Ed 1954) continues to fall back on the same old whines. Forget political parties for a moment, what would you suggest any caring citizen advocate so that we don't have to carry this burden for yet another 55 years?

    And yes, you are right, poverty is a real downer. Today it is topical to recall the 1930's. Can you appreciate how many poor people there were in the country at that time? What happened to them? How might they be considered meaningful role-models? Listen, I understand that when I go on a job interview, I don't carry the badge of my racial identity in my skin color. I accept this as reality. But I must say that I remain to be convinced that more laws and more law suits and more brow-beatings of those that sit across the aisle is going to change this situation. At some point, an "oppressed people" must find the internal strength to say "OK, today I am going to start to look after myself". Trust me, anyone who does that and stumbles, for whatever reason, will find many of us "conservatives" rushing to their sides to help them back to their feet so that they can continue on their own way! That is who we are and what we believe in.
    We are getting way off topic. Start another thread and point me to it and I will happily talk you to death on this topic.

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    Re: Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We are getting way off topic. Start another thread and point me to it and I will happily talk you to death on this topic.
    How is your discussion with atomsNvoid off topic?

    It is a related side issue, true, but it is related to the topic of discussion in this thread. At least IMO.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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