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Thread: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Honduras President Manuel Zelaya Deposed 'And Exiled To Venezuela' Before Consitutional Referendum | World News | Sky News

    This looks as though it could turn nasty lets hope this situation doesnt bring about another Pinochet
    Or that he is put back in power where he can continue to disobey the Honduras Constitution like another Chavez.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Something to think about. We trained the Honduran military and operate a joint base there. We have 550 or so troops down there along with a lot of aircraft and hardware. What about our troops down there? Are they cut off? Will they be expelled? I haven't heard anything at all about them, I hope they are safe.
    Unless Honduras wants to be completely obliterated they'll leave them alone or at least kick them out peacefully.

    What are we doing in Honduras anyway?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post

    What are we doing in Honduras anyway?
    Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras

    Joint Task Force-Bravo is located at Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras. JTF-Bravo is comprised of approximately 550 US military personnel and more than 650 US and Honduran civilians. They work in six different areas including the Joint Staff, Air Force Forces (612th Air Base Squadron), Army Forces, Joint Security Forces and the Medical Element. 1st Battalion, 228th Aviation Regiment, a US Army South asset, is a tenant unit also based at Soto Cano. The J-Staff provides command and control for JTF-B.

    The Air Force Forces has among its functions; weather forecasting, fire protection, and maintaining a 24-hour C-5-capable runway. The Army Forces operate finance, food service and transportation. Joint Security Forces is comprised of Air Force, Army and Marine force protection personnel who patrol the base and downtown areas frequented by US servicemembers.

    Health care services are performed by the Medical Element. The 1st Battalion, 228th Aviation Regiment performs a variety of airlift support missions throughout Central and South America with UH-60 Black Hawk and CH-47 Chinook helicopters. US forces are guests here on the base which is the home of the Honduran Air Force Academy.

    As early as 1965, the US and Honduran Armed Forces conducted combined training exercises. In 1983, the number and size of these exercises increased when the US, at the request of the Honduran Government, began maintaining a visible military presence in the face of threats from foreign forces. This initial joint force was designated JTF-11. Since 1983, the joint task force has provided support for joint and combined training exercises involving active and reserve components. The location and climate of Honduras combine to provide US military members an opportunity to train in an overseas, semi-tropical, austere environment.

    The task force also oversees Operation New Horizons civil engineer training missions that build new schools, bridges, wells and other infrastructure projects in underdeveloped regions of Central America, as well as assisting US forces in providing humanitarian assistance. Additionally, Soto Cano stages and arranges regular medical readiness training exercises throughout Central America dispatching doctors, dentists and nurses to remote regions to treat locals, some of whom have never received modern medical care.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Or that he is put back in power where he can continue to disobey the Honduras Constitution like another Chavez.
    The referendum was colsolative and non binding so I cant see how Zelaya was an immediate threat. Still how is changing the constitution "disobeying" it? Were all 27 amendments to the United States constitution examples of the government "disobeying" the consitution? Should the presidents responsible have been overthrown as well?
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 06-30-09 at 12:03 PM.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    They're saying Hillary was pissed at him for dragging her into a room to shake hands with his entire family. That'll teach them to f*** with the Clintons.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    The referendum was colsolative and non binding so I cant see how Zelaya was an immediate threat.
    Red_Dave,

    You raise an important issue.

    IMO, while President Zelaya was taking measures that violated Honduras' constitution, as only the Congress has the authority to schedule referenda of the kind President Zelaya was seeking, the constitutional machinery needed to be used to address the problem. That might have taken some time, but it was within the Supreme Court's decision to strike down the results of an illegal referendum and Congress' authority to move to impeach the President should he have held that referendum.

    A military coup runs counter to Honduras' constitution.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-30-09 at 12:10 PM.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Red_Dave,

    You raise an important issue.

    IMO, while President Zelaya was taking measures that violated Honduras' constitution, as only the Congress has the authority to schedule referenda of the kind President Zelaya was seeking, the constitutional machinery needed to be used to address the problem. That might have taken some time, but it was within the Supreme Court's decision to strike down the results of an illegal referendum and Congress' authority to move to impeach the President should he have held that referendum.

    A military coup runs counter to Honduras' constitution.
    Is that to say that holding *non-binding* referendums without the permission congress is illegal? I think the huge crackdown on left-wingers we,re seeing in the country would surgest there are ulterior motives involved.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A military coup runs counter to Honduras' constitution.
    So does the president ignoring the rulings of the supreme court and the congress. The Honduran congress were upholding the rule of law.

    What happened wasn't a coup. The congress empowered the military to arrest and deport the president. The government wasn't ovethrown, a dictator wasn't placed in power. In fact, the opposite happened, the government was preserved and a dictator was ousted from office.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    No, you continue to ignore that critical point in favor of ideological dogma. Even if there was dispute about the constitutionality of something so trivial as a nonbinding referendum, there exists neither legal nor ethical justification for the forcible removal and deportation of a democratically elected head of state, since, as was previously mentioned, there wasn't even an apparent constitutional means to remove him peaceably.

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    Re: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Is Deposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No, you continue to ignore that critical point in favor of ideological dogma. Even if there was dispute about the constitutionality of something so trivial as a nonbinding referendum, there exists neither legal nor ethical justification for the forcible removal and deportation of a democratically elected head of state, since, as was previously mentioned, there wasn't even an apparent constitutional means to remove him peaceably.
    Zelaya totally ignored the rulings of the supreme court. Obviously, he didn't intend on playing byt the rules and agree to go peaceably. If he got away with ignoring the supreme court decision prohibiting the abolition of term limits, it's safe to say he would have used his new dictatorial powers to suspend elections this fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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