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Thread: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

  1. #51
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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Again, you engage in mere repetition. I see I'm going to have to educate you as to argument format, unfortunately. You state Point A. I rebut Point A. At that point, you don't merely repeat Point A; you issue a response to my rebuttal of Point A. That's unfortunately not been the format you've chosen to follow.
    Apparently I just have to repeat myself because instead of countering this simple fact you keep the argument going by claiming that I don't bring anything new on the subject.
    Please just counter my point instead of resorting to valueless accusations.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Apparently I just have to repeat myself because instead of countering this simple fact you keep the argument going by claiming that I don't bring anything new on the subject.
    Please just counter my point instead of resorting to valueless accusations.
    Not at all. You stated that the CIA was democratically controlled to some extent because it was controlled by the government, which was in turn "controlled" by the people. I countered by saying that republicanism was heavily distinct from legitimately participatory direct democratic control, and more than that, that the CIA's concealed functions were not even an element of what republican control did exist, ensuring an effective detachment of democratic control from the CIA. You responded by repeating the first assertion without addressing these points.

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Not at all. You stated that the CIA was democratically controlled to some extent because it was controlled by the government, which was in turn "controlled" by the people. I countered by saying that republicanism was heavily distinct from legitimately participatory direct democratic control, and more than that, that the CIA's concealed functions were not even an element of what republican control did exist, ensuring an effective detachment of democratic control from the CIA. You responded by repeating the first assertion without addressing these points.
    But I didn't claim that the CIA was under a 'legitimately participatory direct democratic control'.
    I claimed that the CIA is representing the American people, nothing more and nothing less.
    This is not the same as the CIA being democratic controlled, or the CIA being under a republican control.
    It means that if the CIA is indeed under the arm of the American government itself, it automatically makes it a representation of the People.
    Why would you make it so complicated when it is so simple?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    But I didn't claim that the CIA was under a 'legitimately participatory direct democratic control'.
    I claimed that the CIA is representing the American people, nothing more and nothing less.
    This is not the same as the CIA being democratic controlled, or the CIA being under a republican control.
    It means that if the CIA is indeed under the arm of the American government itself, it automatically makes it a representation of the People.
    Why would you make it so complicated when it is so simple?
    Because some of us care to separate official propaganda from realistic conditions.

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Hey I'll even make it even simple for you The National Security Act of 1947 which brought the CIA along with DoD,NSA,NSC,Joint Cheifs states that Congress and the President will appoint and control these agenceys directors.

    So with that in mind since WE THE PEOPLE are the one's who elected these folks we their for control the CIA.

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    I just explained the divergence. Firstly, there's a lack of participatory democratic control of the government inherent in republicanism. Secondly, what republican control does exist is most certainly not exerted over top military and intelligence agencies. Therefore, there is obviously not popular control or management of the CIA, and why speak to the legitimacy of an arrangement where representation of the citizenry is in name only?

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Because some of us care to separate official propaganda from realistic conditions.
    By some of us you mean to yourself, I assume.
    The facts that a Democracy is controlled by the people and that the CIA is controlled by that democratic government still stand, and I'll be here to repeat them over and over again as long as you do not debunk those facts.
    And it'd be pretty hard to debunk a fact.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    By some of us you mean to yourself, I assume.
    The facts that a Democracy is controlled by the people and that the CIA is controlled by that democratic government still stand, and I'll be here to repeat them over and over again as long as you do not debunk those facts.
    And it'd be pretty hard to debunk a fact.
    Your repetition is growing rapidly less interesting. The reality is that you continue to state this without heeding the obvious detachment between democratic control and the CIA that exists. You're free to do that if you want, but I'm not going to pretend that you're doing anything other than repeating yourself.

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Your repetition is growing rapidly less interesting. The reality is that you continue to state this without heeding the obvious detachment between democratic control and the CIA that exists. You're free to do that if you want, but I'm not going to pretend that you're doing anything other than repeating yourself.
    But pretending is what you do the best.

    Realize though, that if you are willing to get into an argument you cannot expect the other side to change his claims as long as you do not debunk them.

    There is no "obvious detachment" between democratic control and the CIA.
    The CIA is controlled by officials who are under the direct command of the government.
    What you're doing now is nothing less than propaganda.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Iran accuses CIA of killing protestor Neda

    Tashah, is the movie you mentioned real footage or a reenactment?

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