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Thread: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    It's proof that the industry has had a major negative impact on their economy and undoubtedly makes up a substantial portion of their unemployment rate, however it does not prove, nor is it in any reality, the only reason for their high unemployment rate. It does not disprove that what Caldaza reports is true.
    The problem with Caldaza's report is that it assumes the jobs would have been created in the first place. Remember that virtually the entire job lost is opportunity cost. There is no actual evidence that such jobs would have been created had there been no renewable investment. That's an entirely different animal then actual jobs being lost. Potential jobs that may have been created under some assumptions are not the same actual jobs being lost.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    "Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won't pinch wallets, behind the scenes they've acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them."
    But what if all three are unrelated? Say terrorist attacks on several key areas cause oil prices to skyrocket. No impact from the legislation. How about if electricity prices rose because natural gas's price rose due to oil impacts? No impact from the legislation in causing that. Unemployment can rise from all sorts of things.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #53
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The problem with Caldaza's report is that it assumes the jobs would have been created in the first place. Remember that virtually the entire job lost is opportunity cost. There is no actual evidence that such jobs would have been created had there been no renewable investment
    Historical economic models are able to predict such figures fairly accurately. Whether the job is lost or a potential job is never created, the outcome is still the same, in this case, excessive unemployment.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    I noticed a debate on the health bill over whether end of life treatment may be rationed for the elderly.I'm wondering if the amount of CO2 being emitted by an elderly otherwise treatable patient might enter into the bureacratic decision to not provide care, since this bill is brought to us by the same mindset.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    But you and your crystal ball do?

    you are too much
    You didn't read my caveat did you? Obviously not.

    You are trusting people that had to bum rush with little debate and unread a bill through the house.

    You really trust these people. Why? Because they say what makes you FEEL better.

    That is all.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Can't the bill still fail in the senate?

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Can't the bill still fail in the senate?
    I hope so.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its nice to once again have a President that isn't afraid of Science.

    The rest of the world was passing us by due to the lack of efforts of the prior administration in advancing alternative energy. Even China is exporting more solar energy than we are right now. This bill is a step in the right direction.
    LOL... President Science?
    Alternative energy is such a stinker Shell got out of it.
    It's subsidized to the wazoo, and can't fulfill our growing energy needs.

    This is sheer madness.
    But, I guess that's how one defines... Hope & Change.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  9. #59
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So no, the Spanish unemployment is not because of investing heavily in green energy. In fact I would call the article a hit piece since there is very little reference material, and I suspect their "facts" came from right wing sources in Spain who have like in the US been against investing in anything green...
    You mean . . . gasp . . . someone pulled the example of Spain out of their ass and threw it out there in the hopes that nobody would question what's really going on there, and what if anything it has to do with this piece of legislation?

    Hmm.

    I know what to do.

    Hey, ArcanaXV, lady I turn to whenever I've got a question about anything Spain: care to comment?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Democrats off-loading economics to pass climate change bill.-WSJ

    "Waxman-Markey would cost the economy $161 billion in 2020, which is $1,870 for a family of four. As the bill's restrictions kick in, that number rises to $6,800 for a family of four by 2035.

    Note also that the CBO analysis is an average for the country as a whole. It doesn't take into account the fact that certain regions and populations will be more severely hit than others -- manufacturing states more than service states; coal producing states more than states that rely on hydro or natural gas. Low-income Americans, who devote more of their disposable income to energy, have more to lose than high-income families."

    "Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won't pinch wallets, behind the scenes they've acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them."

    "Americans should know that those Members who vote for this climate bill are voting for what is likely to be the biggest tax in American history. Even Democrats can't repeal that reality."





    U G L Y.....


    If environmentalists really want to save the environment so badly they should kill themselves and provide fertlizer for the earth. Much more effective and minimizes the noxious emissions coming out of various orifices.


    In all seriousness, I think that the real debate isn't about that this caps will harm us, but weighing the chances if global warming is real or not.

    I am skeptical of global warming, and I think there should be more research and provable models to see if it is real. However, I recognize that if global warming is true (and the scary predictions are accurate) then we NEED to take steps IMMEDIETLY to reduce greenhouse gases.


    I get the feeling that people who are against this bill don't believe in gobal warming, and it makes alot of sense to be skeptical. Because if the predictions are true (or even have a semi large chance to be true) then the tax increase is odviously worth averting the global consquences.

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