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Thread: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    We need to stop the excess consumption of limited resources, period....
    The best way to accomplish this is through free-market supply-vs-demand economics, not Messianic Fiat or GM.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    There are already similar laws for the state of California (Title 24) and the city of Chicago. Any new or repaired roof must be rated as a cool roof.
    What about the impact to cultural significance of art?

    I mean, would "Cat on a Cool White Roof" have been as big a hit as the one on the hot tin roof?

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't think they can force you retrofit your home, however, id you want to sell your home and it doesn't meet the government's standards, you'll lose your ass on the sell.
    From what I understand they cannot make you retrofit your home, however you will be required to have your home inspected by the fed before your allowed to sell it. If it does not meet the new standards you cannot place your home on the market.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    From what I understand they cannot make you retrofit your home, however you will be required to have your home inspected by the fed before your allowed to sell it. If it does not meet the new standards you cannot place your home on the market.
    That's even worse than selling at a loss.

    This is just nuts!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's even worse than selling at a loss.

    This is just nuts!
    Well on the bright side, part of the bill also expands credit and loaning so that people can make the needed updates. We need more government pressure on banks to extend credit to homeowners.

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    We need more government pressure on banks to extend credit to homeowners.
    We don't need more credit until we have the correction. Forcing credit too early will just inflate another bubble.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    OK, given that absolutely ridiculous statement, it should be easy to point to where the private sector routinely engages in investing in impractical ventures when more practical, viable alternatives (how green energy is presented, but isn't) are out there.

    Care to do that?
    Define impractical. And it's not hard. Does the private sector invest in low profit ventures when higher profit ventures exist? No. This often leads to bad outcomes. Firms invest in stupid crap like chia pets rather than energy development. Capital follows profits. Wonder why there are so few grocery chains in the US? The profits are so low that only a few established firms can operate. Kids toys are one of the best examples of impractical ventures. And people invest large amounts of money into the makers of kids toy's stock rather then firms like nanosolar.

    The notion that capital doesn't follow profits is to fail to understand capitalism. Do you realize that a huge portion of the products that are derived from scientific breakthroughs came from government funding? The NIH produces a wide body of drug information that is later sold to big pharm. Universities across the US do government research that is later commercialized. Aside from a few industries, private capital doesn't fund that kind of stuff because the required rate of return is unknown or insufficient.

    Your idea that required rate of return is "absolutely ridiculous" is certifiably insane. A simple cashflow understanding is useful. If we borrow at 3%, we need usually a 5% return to stay in business. Industries that do not supply that 5% are not going to get our money. Thus, if that industry is practical but not economically profitable enough, it does not get capital at least from the 3%-5% circumstance.

    Is Kandahar the only person who went to business school here?

    Green energy is not practical without subsidiaries, but neither is nuclear. But people tend to forget that subsidiaries are often the infancy of many of our industries.

    I think that relying on pixie-dust Ewok-power is something that the private sector has reasonable apprehensions about.
    Incorrect, the private sector has reasonable apprehensions about long term returns. Solar in this country has had serious problems because Congress kept monkeying around with its subsidiaries. Imagine the nuclear industry where the subsidiaries per kilowatt kept changing every year. You would see much less investment. Germany and Spain (and the Netherlands) have changed this by promising 10 year subsidiaries. Constantly changing subsidiaries makes it essentially impossible to reasonably forecast returns. Firms need to know that their required rate of return is being met. When they cannot do that, investment rarely follows.

    That's whats going on here. The Government is essentially placing one energy commodity off-limits while hoping (with some Government incentives) that a new viable alternative will emerge before become the world circa 1750AD.
    How so?

    You aren't comparing a cottage industry targeting .000000001% of the world's population to the energy source that powers the modern industrialized world , are you?
    No. It was an analogy that practical =/= profitable and thus the nature of how capitalism functions changes. Merely because something can be done does not mean it will be done, especially when the profits are not there.

    That's because there has never been anything "practical" about providing something for nothing.
    That's questionable. There is likely a way to strangle some profits out of poor healthcare. It's just that the margins are likely to be less than grocery stories. At that point, why bother? When you can make 5% here, why settle for .05% there?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    We don't need more credit until we have the correction. Forcing credit too early will just inflate another bubble.
    I think you missed my sarcasm

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The best way to accomplish this is through free-market supply-vs-demand economics, not Messianic Fiat or GM.
    But that assumes the market and its player are rational and abide to the rules. Have you lived in a box for the past 5,000 years?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You haven't given a good reason why we should except what Keynes said other than because he said it. The burden of proof lies with you.
    Because it makes sense? Do you think that the government should not provide internal and external security? Infrastructure is a basic part of a functional society. Without it and clear plans to maintain and expand it as necesasry, we have your beloved 1990s Somalia.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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