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Thread: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

  1. #141
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Keynes did not write the law of this country. He's not God either.
    Indeed he is not. But he is still correct regardless. Keynes described four jobs of the government, one of which was public works. I don't see how anything in your reply is of any value. Socrates never wrote the laws of the country nor that we know of, is God. But his method of the dialectic is an excellent learning tool. The notion that we should reject something for your reasons is asinine.
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Indeed he is not. But he is still correct regardless. Keynes described four jobs of the government, one of which was public works. I don't see how anything in your reply is of any value. Socrates never wrote the laws of the country nor that we know of, is God. But his method of the dialectic is an excellent learning tool. The notion that we should reject something for your reasons is asinine.
    You haven't given a good reason why we should except what Keynes said other than because he said it. The burden of proof lies with you.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #143
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Incorrect. Your statement is a failure to understand capitalism. Private industry allocates capital to where it knows it can make the required rate of return. Merely because something is practical does not equate to private industry investment.
    OK, given that absolutely ridiculous statement, it should be easy to point to where the private sector routinely engages in investing in impractical ventures when more practical, viable alternatives (how green energy is presented, but isn't) are out there.

    Care to do that?

    If the required rate of return is unknown or above what can be reasonably assumed, private industry does not engage in it.
    I think that relying on pixie-dust Ewok-power is something that the private sector has reasonable apprehensions about. That's whats going on here. The Government is essentially placing one energy commodity off-limits while hoping (with some Government incentives) that a new viable alternative will emerge before become the world circa 1750AD.

    Space tourism was practical, but not sufficiently profitable for a very long time.
    You aren't comparing a cottage industry targeting .000000001% of the world's population to the energy source that powers the modern industrialized world , are you?

    Health care for the poor is practical, but the profits are so tiny that it's not worth doing.
    That's because there has never been anything "practical" about providing something for nothing.
    Last edited by The silenced majority; 06-29-09 at 07:52 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    The Cap and Tax bill is going to die in the Senate.
    The senate that gave zero support to Kyoto. Not a single vote.

  5. #145
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    CO is a pollutant, CO2 is not. Huge difference. We breathe out CO2 and it is useful to plants. CO is harmful to both us and plants (probably fungi too).
    Depends on the concentration....plant life reaches a saturation point above which it cannot use any more CO2. Just like Oxygen for us, too much, and it is bad for us.
    If plants grew on CO2 alone, it might work for us, but give plants too much CO2 without the water, sunlight, nutrients from the soil, etc. and the plants will just die.
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  6. #146
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I was trying to teach my self basic electronics and I couldn't finish the book because I don't know calculus. I was trying to get a head start on my part of my major.

    Your absolutely right.



    In some ways it can be counted as local and it other ways it isn't.
    The plant closest to me is about 20 miles away, so it can kinda be considered local.
    It isn't really practical to use AC to generate power locally when you can use it to generate power regionally.

    DC has many added benefits like the fact that it is safer if you get electrocuted. The electric chair was invented to prove how dangerous AC power generation could be.

    But like I said earlier, you'd have to retrofit every home with a true sine wave inverter until people bought all new tvs, computers, other electronics, nearly everything. Not many want to do that.
    True sine wave inverters are expensive.
    you only need basic algebra to understand basic electricitiy.....calculus is for engineer level and above...and even most of them never use it once out of college....
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  7. #147
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Edison was wrong.

    There, that's all solved.

    We use AC because transmission losses are dominated by the current transmitted. The use of alternating high voltage allows the use of transformers to create the current locally, instead of shipping the electrons all over the place direct.
    you might be trying to say that we use AC because we can use step up transformers to increase the voltage for long distance transmission, that by increasing the voltage we can reduce the current thus minimizing I squared R losses.Once at your local substation, the voltage can be dropped using more transformers to more closely match the needs of local consumers.
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  8. #148
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Not true.

    AC current spasms the muscles, and a person will let go.

    DC current goes one way, the muscles contract, and you don't let go.

    Or so my electrician pals in the Navy told me.
    I have been zapped by AC a few times, never by DC, but I imagine DC hurts about the same. What is fatal much of the time is voltage in the 100 to 200 mA range of current that makes the heart go into spasms, damaging itself. You are better off getting a shock that stops the heart, assuming there is someone there to restart it.
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  9. #149
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Parts of this bill are a good thing, especially the part that the Architecture 2030 group got put in it. This will require new national building codes so that builders/contractors/subcontractors have to do it right, instead of just doing what will pass an inspection by the local building inspector who is the mayor's idiot son-in-law who needed a job...
    As for all the undesireable add-ons, and the parts that might not work, I suppose lack of funding will kill those parts?
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  10. #150
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    Re: House narrowly passes major energy-climate bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Depends on the concentration....plant life reaches a saturation point above which it cannot use any more CO2. Just like Oxygen for us, too much, and it is bad for us.
    If plants grew on CO2 alone, it might work for us, but give plants too much CO2 without the water, sunlight, nutrients from the soil, etc. and the plants will just die.
    But we're not at levels anywhere close to that.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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