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Thread: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

  1. #41
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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    But did you consider that her gender might HELP change perceptions? I doubt Martin Luther King would have been as influential as he was if he were white. But he became the most prominent face of Black America to many white people...and many of them found him (and by extension, black people) to be much less scary than they imagined.
    And those who didn't accept him shot him, just as they shot Medgar Evers and other civil rights leaders.

    It's easy to remember Dr. King's dramatic speeches on behalf of equality, just as it's easy to remember Brown v Board of Education of Topeka Kansas. It's less easy to remember Selma, March 7, 1965, when 600 civil rights marchers were beaten and tear-gassed at the Edmund Pettus Bridge. It's less easy to remember the US Marshalls that had to escort James Meredith to his classes. It's less easy to remember the soldiers in Little Rock.

    There is much more to the history of the Civil Rights movement in this country than Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech, and not all of that history is pretty or moving or inspiring. Some of it, perhaps even most of it, is pretty damn ugly.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I cannot believe you actually said that. Not talking to some one is not inviting them to attack us.
    Talking to some and not others is not exactly showering those "others" with heaps of praise. Talking to some and not others is not exactly friendly and sociable to those "others".

    Presenting an envoy to the whole of the Ummah who is only going to engage the "moderate" (i.e., already quasi-friendly) portions of the Ummah is getting pretty close to an implicit statement that the rest are not part of the Ummah.

    There are two guaranteed ways to piss people off: 1) include them in groups they dislike, and 2) exclude them from groups they like.

    Seems to me an envoy to the Ummah ought to have an agenda besides pissing off parts of the Ummah.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    And those who didn't accept him shot him, just as they shot Medgar Evers and other civil rights leaders.

    It's easy to remember Dr. King's dramatic speeches on behalf of equality, just as it's easy to remember Brown v Board of Education of Topeka Kansas. It's less easy to remember Selma, March 7, 1965, when 600 civil rights marchers were beaten and tear-gassed at the Edmund Pettus Bridge. It's less easy to remember the US Marshalls that had to escort James Meredith to his classes. It's less easy to remember the soldiers in Little Rock.

    There is much more to the history of the Civil Rights movement in this country than Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech, and not all of that history is pretty or moving or inspiring. Some of it, perhaps even most of it, is pretty damn ugly.
    Nice post. Too bad it did not address what Kandahar said.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And, once again, The Taliban and Friends do not represent the entire Muslim world.
    No, they do not. But they are part of the Muslim world. They are a vocal part of the Muslim world. They are a part of the Muslim world that is quite determined not to be ignored.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Talking to some and not others is not exactly showering those "others" with heaps of praise. Talking to some and not others is not exactly friendly and sociable to those "others".

    Presenting an envoy to the whole of the Ummah who is only going to engage the "moderate" (i.e., already quasi-friendly) portions of the Ummah is getting pretty close to an implicit statement that the rest are not part of the Ummah.

    There are two guaranteed ways to piss people off: 1) include them in groups they dislike, and 2) exclude them from groups they like.

    Seems to me an envoy to the Ummah ought to have an agenda besides pissing off parts of the Ummah.
    She does have an agenda besides pissing off anyone.

    We are still the US. We still promote women to positions of power. Condi Rice was able to do her job, and i suspect this woman will be able to as well.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Nice post. Too bad it did not address what Kandahar said.
    It addressed exactly what Kandahar said.

    Dr. King was significant in advancing civil rights in this country, but the path by which civil rights were advanced was quite violent and bloody at several junctures, and there were quite a few who were determined to resist the change that others desired.

    Dr. King did a lot. He did not do it all, and he did not do any of it alone.

    Moreover, if our own culture of political correctness is so rigid and unyielding that we cannot acknowledge the very real cultural cross currents that will impact an outreach effort to other cultures, just how in the hell are any of us supposed to hear those other cultures?

    Everybody wants "outreach" and "talks". Great. Fine. Wonderful. Are you willing to hear the Sudanese defend their applications of Shari'ah? Are you prepared to listen to Saudis defend the prohibition against women driving? Are you prepared to hear the defense of the burqua and the hijab?

    If you cannot listen to those things, whatever you think you might be doing, the one thing you are not doing is "talking".

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    She does have an agenda besides pissing off anyone.

    We are still the US. We still promote women to positions of power. Condi Rice was able to do her job, and i suspect this woman will be able to as well.
    Condi Rice was Secretary of State, not envoy to the Muslim world.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It addressed exactly what Kandahar said.

    Dr. King was significant in advancing civil rights in this country, but the path by which civil rights were advanced was quite violent and bloody at several junctures, and there were quite a few who were determined to resist the change that others desired.

    Dr. King did a lot. He did not do it all, and he did not do any of it alone.

    Moreover, if our own culture of political correctness is so rigid and unyielding that we cannot acknowledge the very real cultural cross currents that will impact an outreach effort to other cultures, just how in the hell are any of us supposed to hear those other cultures?

    Everybody wants "outreach" and "talks". Great. Fine. Wonderful. Are you willing to hear the Sudanese defend their applications of Shari'ah? Are you prepared to listen to Saudis defend the prohibition against women driving? Are you prepared to hear the defense of the burqua and the hijab?

    If you cannot listen to those things, whatever you think you might be doing, the one thing you are not doing is "talking".
    Either you did not comprehend what he said, or are intentionally avoiding it. He specifically said that being black may have been a benefit to King in terms of his effectiveness in the civil rights movement, and that being a woman might benefit Farah Pandith.

    You still have not addressed that suggestion. You have just danced around it.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Condi Rice was Secretary of State, not envoy to the Muslim world.
    She still was able to deal with the Muslim world, despite being a woman.

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    Re: US appoints envoy to Muslim world

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No, they do not. But they are part of the Muslim world. They are a vocal part of the Muslim world. They are a part of the Muslim world that is quite determined not to be ignored.
    The Taliban is a force of about 10,000 people. Islam has 1.8 billion adherents. Perhaps the United States could gear its outreach toward the other 99.9994% of the Muslim world.
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