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Thread: Obama discusses deathbed measures

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Of all the reasons to criticize Obama's health care proposal (and there are many), this isn't the best one.

    I haven't heard that any proposal would ban private doctors or otherwise prevent you or I from purchasing medical care that the government system did not cover. The only decision that government would have would be as to what it would choose to cover.
    Why would explicit prohibition be necessary?

    If the impact of the proposal is to artificially limit the availability of what might be purchased with private resource, it accomplishes the same end as an explicit prohibition: an arbitrary and likely capricious rationing of healthcare.

    One cannot buy that which is not offered for sale.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Of all the reasons to criticize Obama's health care proposal (and there are many), this isn't the best one.

    I haven't heard that any proposal would ban private doctors or otherwise prevent you or I from purchasing medical care that the government system did not cover. The only decision that government would have would be as to what it would choose to cover.
    Is the government even proposing to go that far? All Obama said in the provided link is that education was needed. Of course our far right friends spun that into the government is going to let granny die, but that type of exaggeration is getting all too common lately.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Why would explicit prohibition be necessary?

    If the impact of the proposal is to artificially limit the availability of what might be purchased with private resource, it accomplishes the same end as an explicit prohibition: an arbitrary and likely capricious rationing of healthcare.

    One cannot buy that which is not offered for sale.
    You don't think that there will still be a thriving market for private healthcare for those who can afford it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is the government even proposing to go that far? All Obama said in the provided link is that education was needed. Of course our far right friends spun that into the government is going to let granny die, but that type of exaggeration is getting all too common lately.
    I hope he was going that far. We cannot expect to improve healthcare outcomes so long as we're still spending such massive sum on extending low-quality life for short periods of time for old folks.
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You don't think that there will still be a thriving market for private healthcare for those who can afford it?
    There may be some market--but the extent to which it "thrives" is directly proportional to the extent to which government policy does not interfere with its existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I hope he was going that far. We cannot expect to improve healthcare outcomes so long as we're still spending such massive sum on extending low-quality life for short periods of time for old folks.
    The biggest objection I have to this is the word "we".

    Healthcare outcomes should be a matter of individual choice and individual consequence. What "we" need in healthcare is a whole lot less "we" and a whole lot more "I". "I want" needs to be balanced with "I will pay".

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    There may be some market--but the extent to which it "thrives" is directly proportional to the extent to which government policy does not interfere with its existence.
    I don't think I've seen anything that would indicate the government plans to interfere to a significant degree in that aspect. I genuinely don't know and would appreciate any information on it if you have any.


    The biggest objection I have to this is the word "we".

    Healthcare outcomes should be a matter of individual choice and individual consequence. What "we" need in healthcare is a whole lot less "we" and a whole lot more "I". "I want" needs to be balanced with "I will pay".
    I think that this doesn't have to be totally incompatible with some sort of public care. We could have a system where the absolute basic essentials (checkup once a year, broken limbs, etc.) were covered under a government plan and where everything else was a matter of private choice.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't think I've seen anything that would indicate the government plans to interfere to a significant degree in that aspect. I genuinely don't know and would appreciate any information on it if you have any.
    • Forcing people to purchase health insurance.
    • Undercutting private insurance with public insurance.

    Those two elements of the Kennedy bill are of themselves substantive interferences in healthcare markets. I do not see them as being benign.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I think that this doesn't have to be totally incompatible with some sort of public care. We could have a system where the absolute basic essentials (checkup once a year, broken limbs, etc.) were covered under a government plan and where everything else was a matter of private choice.
    We could have that. That is not what is proposed.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    • Forcing people to purchase health insurance.
    • Undercutting private insurance with public insurance.

    Those two elements of the Kennedy bill are of themselves substantive interferences in healthcare markets. I do not see them as being benign.
    I don't either, but I don't think they would be so significant as to have seriously detrimental effects on your or my ability to go get a non-covered treatment.

    We could have that. That is not what is proposed.
    I know, I'm just wishing and hoping fruitlessly over here.
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You don't think that there will still be a thriving market for private healthcare for those who can afford it?
    Oh, there most certainly will.

    The people righting these asinine laws the destroy the option of private healthcare for the middle class most certainly have enough money to buy their own care and they most certainly will make sure the loop holes that exist exclude us and include them.

    What suckers the Messiah Believers are.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Oh, there most certainly will.

    The people righting these asinine laws the destroy the option of private healthcare for the middle class most certainly have enough money to buy their own care and they most certainly will make sure the loop holes that exist exclude us and include them.

    What suckers the Messiah Believers are.
    Another possible theory: A public plan will by design attract those whose care is the most costly. The practical result of this might be a decrease in the average consumer cost on private plans, which could lead to a decrease in private plan cost.
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Another possible theory: A public plan will by design attract those whose care is the most costly. The practical result of this might be a decrease in the average consumer cost on private plans, which could lead to a decrease in private plan cost.
    I read an article describing this position just yesterday. Seems pretty realistic to me.
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