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Thread: Obama discusses deathbed measures

  1. #141
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    There's a HUGE difference between having CHOICE and NO CHOICE.

    There's a HUGE difference between making decisions for YOURSELF and allowing faceless Government Bureaucrats make them.

    There's a difference between having the best level of care without LONG waiting lines and shortages and giving up your freedoms for a Government MISmanaged program where the decisions of your care are no longer yours and you are taxed at ever greater levels to pay for LESS care than we currently have.

    The only thing that requires more willful denial than the notion that National healthcare is a GOOD thing is the equally asinine notion that Government can do the job better than the FREE market and that we citizens will actually pay LESS for a more MEDIOCRE system than we currently have.

    This is not about NOT having care; this is about NOT having any choice or anywhere else to turn.
    Read the words that I posted, then try again.

    How would you have no choice in Obama's system? Is he proposing to ban all private doctors?

    I'm not advocating for national health care. I think it's a ****ty idea. However, your arguments against it are just plain terrible.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You should try actual debate. Oh wait, that is far too complex and taxing for you.
    Debate what?

    People lacking a coherent moral philosophy waving machine guns in people's faces and telling them what's good for them?

    You can't debate because you don't have a consistent moral and philosophical foundation for your ideas. You're told what's nice, you react emotionally, you're told half-assed arguments, you react emotionally, and you decide that because you feel goo about it, it's okay to impose your feelings on others at the point of a gun.

    Bully for you.

    Don't babble about debate when you can't even argue.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm not advocating for national health care. I think it's a ****ty idea. However, your arguments against it are just plain terrible.
    1) It's not allowed by the Constitution.

    That's an excellent argument.

    2) The government can't afford to steal 14% of the nation's economy right now.

    That's an excellent argument.

    3) Mandatory rationing by bureaucratic estimation. That sound wonderful to you?

    That's an excellent argument.

    4) It's not necessary.

    That's an excellent argument.

    5) People with private healthcare will lose it. Don't lie about this, that's what comes next.

    That's an excellent argument.

    In favor?

    1) Buys Democrat votes
    2) Puts 14% more of the economy under direct government control, in addition to the financial sector in which the government has done such a wonderful job running.
    3) Makes even more people dependent on government.
    4) Destroys the free market.
    5) Won't do what's promised, since it's not intended to.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Obama's plan gives everyone an alternative to private insurance, in fact he has said repeatedly,
    That's certainly reassuring.

    Certainly the coal miners he promised to protect will feel relieved about that since his Cap and Trade bill is going though that will destroy coal mining in America.


    I bet all the people he repeatedly promised to not tax will feel relieved that he's repeatedly promising to let them (how gracious the fascists are in victory, they say) keep their private health care, as he raises taxes on everyone who has a job.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post



    Obama proposed a single payer system? Link?

    Perhaps not, but I think its his ideal system, at least he says it is.

    Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  6. #146
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Perhaps not, but I think its his ideal system, at least he says it is.

    Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ
    From that source:

    "So my attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time—as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s covered—decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.”
    Important to tell the whole story Rev, not just the part handy for you hyper-partisan right wing types.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    From that source:



    Important to tell the whole story Rev, not just the part handy for you hyper-partisan right wing types.



    Oh please, He would prefer a single payer system.


    Yes or no.
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Oh please, He would prefer a single payer system.


    Yes or no.
    Misleading. In a perfect world, single payer would be preferable. In the real world, it would not be. You have so much trouble with context.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Misleading. In a perfect world, single payer would be preferable. In the real world, it would not be. You have so much trouble with context.
    In a perfect world, the person getting his leg fixed pays the doctor. It's not my leg, I shouldn't have to pay a dime.

    In the socialist world, where nothing works, single payer is preferred, so long as that single payer is the government.

    No self-respecting responsible adult thinks the socialist vision of health care is healthy.

  10. #150
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    1) It's not allowed by the Constitution.

    That's an excellent argument
    Except insomuch as that it's based on your hilarious misunderstanding of the law.

    2) The government can't afford to steal 14% of the nation's economy right now.

    That's an excellent argument.
    Agree. Stick with this one.

    3) Mandatory rationing by bureaucratic estimation. That sound wonderful to you?

    That's an excellent argument.
    I don't think you understand what the word "rationing" means.

    4) It's not necessary.

    That's an excellent argument.
    Also a good argument.

    5) People with private healthcare will lose it. Don't lie about this, that's what comes next.

    That's an excellent argument.
    Not implausible. If you dig up some sources that support you on this and learn to convey it in a balanced manner, you might actually end up convincing people of your view.

    Godspeed.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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