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Thread: Obama discusses deathbed measures

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Under Obama's plan it is unlawful for the private sector to provide equivalent coverage as the government. Doesn't that validate some people's concerns regarding their healthcare options, or lack thereof?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    H.R. 676

    IN GENERAL.—It is unlawful for a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage that duplicates the benefits provided under this Act.

    Page 8, Lines 4-7.

    http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_bill_final.pdf
    You're confusing Obama's plan with H.R. 676 which is a full UHC, single payer proposal (it doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere, IMO).

    Obama's plan gives everyone an alternative to private insurance, in fact he has said repeatedly, that if you like what you have now, by all means keep it.

    http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanFull.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    There are plenty of people who want UHC because they are tired of jumping through the hoops of insurance companies, and being denied coverage arbitrarily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Completely untrue.
    Did you look at the at the 'proof' that you quoted from Solidus?

    These aren't studies on denial or cancellation of coverage by insurance companies.

    All three sources are talking about the costly, inefficient, confusion of filing of paperwork and the appeals process after the fact. The first two 'suggest' reasons why the claim was originally denied, the Maryland one spoke of clerical errors.

    I don't think that's what Orius and others are concerned about.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

  2. #132
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Obama discusses deathbed measures - Los Angeles Times

    Huge kudos to Obama for having the balls to say what needs to be said on this. Here's hoping he takes it one step further and reminds people that egardless of the health care system we have, you're not entitled to all the health care that you want. Elder care is one of the biggest black holes in our current system, and needs to be fixed if any new system has any hope of succeeding.
    You're kidding me right? So who will be the decider of last resort when it comes to old people getting care that may not save them; the Government?

    I am stunned that anyone can say "kudos" to someone in Government deciding that your mom or dad just aren't worth the effort and just let them die.

    This is definitely what you will get when you become a "ward" of the Democrat state though; less choice and cold hearted statements that in order for the Government to save money and the healthcare system, we will allow those afflicted with critical conditions and the old infirm, just go somewhere and die and not drain the system of money.

    I guess we should have just told all those with aids to just go away and die; after all, why waste all that money on them if they are going to die anyway.

  3. #133
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not in this thread. All you did is troll, as you usually do, so I pointed it out. But please, tell us what your thoughts are on this, other than your typical, nonsensical "I wanna bash Obama and anyone who supports him" posts. Let's see if you have a real position on this issue.
    Wrongo as usual for you; Triad responded with an OPINION about Obamacare, you trolled him by making it a personal attack.

    But then, based on your method of infracting people you just don't like, why should ANYONE be surprised to see a moderator on this forum not recognize his very own trolling.

    This forum's inability to police it's own for trolling and baiting is stunning.

  4. #134
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You of course know that there is a difference between not doing lifesaving procedures, and not doing unnecessary procedures? I know you would never exaggerate nor use ridiculous hyperbole.
    You of course know that there is a difference between the Doctor or loved one making the decision of what is unnecessary and having some politician doing it? I know you would never use ridiculous hyperbole to make your points.

  5. #135
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I am really getting tired of the rightwing "slippery slope" arguments on every issue. You are dying of cancer with six months to live. Should you get hip replacement surgery, which takes every bit of six months to recover from? Somehow Councilman would like us to believe that if you don't have that surgery it constitutes euthenasia, and he quickly draws a line to Hitler. This type of response is juvenile, unhelpful, and irresponsible.
    What is juvenile, unhelpful and irresponsible is completely missing the point being made and going on another of your tiresome Liberal rants;

    It's not about getting a hip replacement surgery when you have cancer, it is about who makes the decision about what is unnecessary. You of course think that politicians should make those decisions for you, but others who are quite a bit more enlightened are suggesting this would be a bad idea.

    I am amused that Liberals think that MORE Government is a GOOD idea; that is, until Republicans are the ones in charge of the Government.

  6. #136
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat4life View Post
    Well why should we spend hundreds of thousand of dollars to get a 97 year old a heart transplant for them to die of natural causes in two years?! What benefit does a 97 year old give society? They live off social security and use our tax money for their health care with medicare and all that nonsense.
    This needs to be the poster child statement for what the Democrat Party stands for these days; thank you for pointing it out so clearly.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat4life View Post
    Sometimes its just not worth saving a life.

    And thats the only decision the government would make. The ability to deny care to people who shouldn't get it.



    Theyre deciding ONE thing. Wether it is worth saving a life.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bravo......I guess you will be okay letting the politicians decide whether or not your mom or dad are worth saving rather than trusting you with that decision.

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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Why?

    There are plenty of people who want UHC because they are tired of jumping through the hoops of insurance companies, and being denied coverage arbitrarily. I have never seen such corruption before as I have in the U.S. private insurance sector.
    Okay, let me understand this, you think that Insurance Companies will make you jump through more hoops than a Government run plan?

    I cannot willfully suspend my disbelief sufficiently to even think, let alone suggest such nonsense.

    But let's put this whole debate to rest right now; we should all be asking the Democrats including Obama this question; will they all be under the same plan as the one they want to force us to have? If the answer is no, then the American people clearly should not support anything politicians want to force on them.

    The notion that Government employees will be more honest, more caring and better equipped to decide who gets medical care and when, and that they will somehow be better fiscal managers requires a stunning level of willful denial don't you think?

  9. #139
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Why?

    There are plenty of people who want UHC because they are tired of jumping through the hoops of insurance companies, and being denied coverage arbitrarily. I have never seen such corruption before as I have in the U.S. private insurance sector.
    You're claiming that the fact that people want UHC is proof of foul play. There's nothing to support that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    "Single Payer"


    I would say this is by definition a "yes"....


    Do I have something wrong?
    Obama proposed a single payer system? Link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    You're kidding me right? So who will be the decider of last resort when it comes to old people getting care that may not save them; the Government?
    www.medicare.googleit.com

    I am stunned that anyone can say "kudos" to someone in Government deciding that your mom or dad just aren't worth the effort and just let them die.
    How would Obama's proposal take away rights that you would otherwise have? I don't think you understand what is going on.

    This is definitely what you will get when you become a "ward" of the Democrat state though; less choice and cold hearted statements that in order for the Government to save money and the healthcare system, we will allow those afflicted with critical conditions and the old infirm, just go somewhere and die and not drain the system of money.

    I guess we should have just told all those with aids to just go away and die; after all, why waste all that money on them if they are going to die anyway.
    There's a difference between no care and palliative care.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #140
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    Re: Obama discusses deathbed measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's a difference between no care and palliative care.
    There's a HUGE difference between having CHOICE and NO CHOICE.

    There's a HUGE difference between making decisions for YOURSELF and allowing faceless Government Bureaucrats make them.

    There's a difference between having the best level of care without LONG waiting lines and shortages and giving up your freedoms for a Government MISmanaged program where the decisions of your care are no longer yours and you are taxed at ever greater levels to pay for LESS care than we currently have.

    The only thing that requires more willful denial than the notion that National healthcare is a GOOD thing is the equally asinine notion that Government can do the job better than the FREE market and that we citizens will actually pay LESS for a more MEDIOCRE system than we currently have.

    This is not about NOT having care; this is about NOT having any choice or anywhere else to turn.

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