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Thread: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

  1. #201
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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Moderator's Warning:
    Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)Everyone needs to knock off the personal attacks or I will be doling out thread bans and infractions.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You fail.

    Blah blah blah. And you still failed.

    You fail once again.

    You fail yet again.

    Epic fail.

    Fail.

    Yeah so?
    Do you never tire of sounding like you are in third grade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You're insane. Hitler held western Europe with substantially less forces than he fought with on the Eastern front. He actually shifted western front resources off to fight the Russians because he had overextended his lines of supply and his offensives were stalling out and being pushed back. His troops in Normandy were under equipped and almost devoid of air cover. It was only because of the eastern front that we could even mount a D-Day offensive, not the other way around. The Soviets had the Germans on the run after Stalingrad and Kursk. The eastern front had collapsed on the Axis and they were being steadily destroyed and pushed back before allied troops ever stepped foot on the beaches of Normandy. Nothing Germany could do would have stopped the Red Army from taking the Rhineland and ending the war. The only thing D-Day did was speed up the surrender of Germany and insure the French weren't speaking Russian. Over 70% of German casualties were at the hands of the Red Army. Stalin didn't get his second front until after he had decimated German forces on the eastern front and began his drive to Germany.
    Once again we have a lot of OPINION laced with a lot of “because you say so” with little substance or historic fact to back it all up.

    Do some reading and become “informed” rather than sound like a childish know-it-all. Here are some facts:

    “It took the Soviet troops three months to force the Finnish government to agree to Stalin's original demands. Although the world was now aware of Stalin's shrewdness in foreign affairs, Finland's small army of 200,000 men had exposed the Soviet Union's poorly trained and equipped army.”

    Stalin was still highly suspicious of Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt and was worried about them signing a peace agreement with Adolf Hitler. The foreign policies of the capitalist countries since the October Revolution had convinced Stalin that their main objective was the destruction of the communist system in the Soviet Union. Stalin was fully aware that if Britain and the USA withdrew from the war, the Red Army would have great difficulty in dealing with Germany on its own.

    At Teheran, Stalin reminded Churchill and Roosevelt of a previous promise of landing troops in Western Europe in 1942. Later they postponed it to the spring of 1943. Stalin complained that it was now November and there was still no sign of an allied invasion of France. After lengthy discussions it was agreed that the Allies would mount a major offensive in the spring of 1944. “

    Joseph Stalin

    Stalin's troops struggled to hold the Eastern front against the Nazi forces, and the Soviets began pleading for a British invasion of France immediately after the Nazi invasion in 1941. In 1942, Roosevelt unwisely promised the Soviets that the Allies would open the second front that autumn. Although Stalin only grumbled when the invasion was postponed until 1943, he exploded the following year when the invasion was postponed again until May of 1944. In retaliation, Stalin recalled his ambassadors from London and Washington and fears soon arose that the Soviets might seek a separate peace with Germany.”

    U.S.-Soviet Alliance, 1941-1945

    From the Soviet viewpoint that would be only slightly less disastrous
    than being defeated by Germany
    . Stalin wants the Germans defeated, but he is perfectly willing to make a separate peace with the Germans as long as that peace puts the Soviet Union back at its pre-German invasion borders. The Germans aren't willing to go along with that, partly because they don't think they need to, and partly because they don't trust the Soviets not to reenter the war after the Germans and the Western Allies have exhausted each other. The Russian people have suffered enough at German hands that the idea of a separate peace with the Germans would not be popular, but Stalin has the tools to make public opinion irrelevant.”

    “If it looks like the western allies are going to get too much of the fruits of victory, some sort of short-term deal could be arranged with the Germans--either a tacit agreement to stop offensive operations for a while so the Germans can concentrate on the allies, or a separate peace. Either way, the Soviet Union needs victories, and it needs them now.”

    http://www.alternatehistory.com/shwi...ow,%201942.txt

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    So? They kicked the **** out of the Wermacht and it's allies. You're clueless about World War II.
    No, they lost 20,000,000 men and were still well within Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    False, we had cut off oil and steel exports to Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, which they considered an act of war. They attacked Pearl Harbor because they had to take the oil fields in the Dutch East Indies in order to sustain their empire and they believed our fleet in Hawaii was the only thing that would stop them. That in no way forced us to send troops to Europe.
    You can claim everything is false till you are blue in the face, but right up until the attack on Pearl Harbor, America was perfectly fine selling it’s steel and resources to the highest bidder in an act of neutrality.

    Without the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the German declaration of war on us, Americans would have been content with sitting this one out. Many even sympathized with German efforts and there was a lot of talk of lucrative trade with Nazi Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I have already shown how you are woefully ignorant of World War II history. My intellect doesn't have to be all that high to put you in your place.
    No, what you have shown once again is that you are woefully inadequate to the task of forming a coherent point of view that even has a relevant point and wandering off onto incoherent tirades which make little sense.

    Carry on.

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    ROFL!

    What was the point of the French Revolution aside from removing the Monarchy?

    It was a great success and it is still celebrated here each 14th of July!
    It was a democidal reign of terror. It led to dictatorship not republic, it did not succeed in fomentinga republican constitution, it did not succeed in any of its objectives outside of removing the monarchy, all it did was replace one dictator with another costing thousands upon thousands of lives to the hands of the mass murderer Robespierre who will go down in history as the precursor and inspiration to Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It was a democidal reign of terror. It led to dictatorship not republic, it did not succeed in fomentinga republican constitution, it did not succeed in any of its objectives outside of removing the monarchy, all it did was replace one dictator with another costing thousands upon thousands of lives to the hands of the mass murderer Robespierre who will go down in history as the precursor and inspiration to Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
    Excellent post.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #205
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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    We didn't enter the EUROPEAN conflict until after Germany declared war upon us. It doesn't matter that they didn't want to go to war with us, they did. They initiated it, we responded. Those are the facts.

    Try again.
    Germany declared war on us right after Japan did. We had not declared war at all yet, so of course we were second. Correlation does not prove causation. Simply because Germany declared first, that does not mean that Germany's declaration was the reason we declared war. Those may be facts, but you have convienantly left out those facts that do not support your argument. We commited to help the allies in Europe first, in exchange for them helping us with Japan later. Russia was an ally of Hitler before he betrayed them after conquering most of Europe. Hitler didn't declare war on Russia until after the Battle of Britain. Russia can hardly be counted as the savior of Europe considering they occupied a large portion of it for years afterwards. Stop trying to discredit the valiant sacrifices of hundreds of thousands of American servicemen by claiming we did not save Europe. Stalin would have occupied all of Germany's conquests had he been the sole victor. It does not matter that saving Europe was not the only motivation of the American Army. We still did save the world. Any real historian would grant that point and move on.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Oh please god. Not the US saved the world line ...

    US came in late in the game.
    It was Britain and its commonwealth which intiated the operation on D Day in France and not to mention it was Russia who arguably played the most important role. If it wasn't for the Russians, we'd be speaking German.
    Britain and Russia would have been crushed without Lend Lease.

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Britain and Russia would have been crushed without Lend Lease.
    How does any of this apply to what happened in Baharestan Square?

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How does any of this apply to what happened in Baharestan Square?
    You would have to go back a few posts. We started talking about how Europe shouldn't be able to criticise any potential U.S. response, because U.S. armed response was what saved them in WWII. Apparently, some people find that debatable...
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by wbreese91 View Post
    You would have to go back a few posts. We started talking about how Europe shouldn't be able to criticise any potential U.S. response, because U.S. armed response was what saved them in WWII. Apparently, some people find that debatable...
    Ah....so the correct and concise answer is "nothing".

    Thanks!

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    Re: Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today (Baharestan Square Massacre)

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Ah....so the correct and concise answer is "nothing".

    Thanks!
    No, it does have something to do with it.

    In the event of a possible, but highly unlikely U.S. military response in Iran (not advocating, simply hypothesizing) the U.S. would in all likelyhood take flak from Europian nations, many of which owe their own freedom and democracy to similar U.S. action. It is perfectly valid to discuss this to some extent in this tread.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

    - Cicero

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