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Thread: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    First off, every time I've had health insurance with a company, I paid for it. I paid hundreds of dollars a month for it. I got a DISCOUNT because it was a group rate.
    So what? How is that my concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Now, you think that because I get a group rate discount with my employer that I should be taxed on top of my insurance costs? Just BECAUSE I have insurance? No offense, but WTF kind of retarded idea is that? Tax the folks with insurance even MORE?
    So you think that making people completely dependent on their employers for those cushy group rate discounts is a wise economic policy? You think that government subsidies to encourage people to stay at ****ty, dead-end jobs that they hate and that they suck at - instead of getting a better job or going back to school - is a wise economic policy? No offense, but WTF kind of retarded idea is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Secondly, I don't agree with income tax to begin with, so I'm sure as **** not going to agree with increasing that income tax.
    Then let's not pretend that this has anything at all to do with taxing health benefits specifically, when in reality you just don't like paying any taxes on anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Lastly, having employer supplemented insurance makes it more affordable for people since they are group rate policies, which means you have more people with insurance, which means you have fewer people without insurance, which means you have fewer people who run out on their bills or milk the government assistance, which means that they save all of us money. And now to reward them for saving everyone money, you think they should PAY MORE?
    That is absolutely the opposite of how economics works. Employer-funded health insurance means that everyone who ISN'T employed (or is employed by someone who doesn't provide health insurance) can't get it at all, because it drives up the costs of individual plans since group rate discounts are the norm. It makes people dependent on their employers and unwilling to change jobs. And it makes people extremely vulnerable if they suddenly get laid off or get fired or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    I mean seriously... It has to be one of the more retarded notions put forth that I've heard in some time.

    Sorry... but this kind of **** absolutely infuriates me to no end.
    What infuriates me to no end is when people who obviously have no understanding of economics try to pose as experts on economic policy.

    Suppose I was earning $100K in income and was sick of paying taxes on it. So my employer agreed to not pay me anything, but just give me a $100K house each year as a "gift" or a "benefit." Do you think the government would look fondly on THAT? How is this any different?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-26-09 at 07:07 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So you think that making people completely dependent on their employers for those cushy group rate discounts is a wise economic policy? You think that government subsidies to encourage people to stay at ****ty, dead-end jobs that they hate and that they suck at - instead of getting a better job or going back to school - is a wise economic policy? No offense, but WTF kind of retarded idea is that?
    Who the **** is encouraging anyone to stay anywhere? And what government subsidies are you talking about? I'm talking about group rate insurance.

    Having insurance options at a job sure as **** never encouraged me to stay there if the job sucked.

    Then let's not pretend that this has anything at all to do with taxing health benefits specifically, when in reality you just don't like paying any taxes on anything.
    Who the **** does like it? And, it DOES have to do with taxing benefits specifically. It has to do with increasing taxes when we're all already paying far too much.

    That is absolutely the opposite of how economics works. Employer-funded health insurance means that everyone who ISN'T employed (or is employed by someone who doesn't provide health insurance) can't get it at all, because it drives up the costs of individual plans since group rate discounts are the norm.
    Well, my experience working with Humana Insurance says differently.

    It makes people dependent on their employers and unwilling to change jobs. And it makes people extremely vulnerable if they suddenly get laid off or get fired or whatever.
    No, they aren't extremely vulnerable since your big government offers COBRA. So no, if they get fired or quit or laid off, they get COBRA that will tide them over until they get a new job.

    And if people stay at crappy ass jobs they hate just for insurance purposes, that's THEIR problem, not mine, and certainly not the governments. If those people are so hard up they can't figure out how to quit one job with benefits and find another with benefits, then how is forcing them to pay more money going to help them?

    What infuriates me to no end is when people who obviously have no understanding of economics try to pose as experts on economic policy.
    Actually, I know quite a bit, and I also have bit of knowledge about insurance. But I never, not ONCE insinuated that I was an "expert" on economic policy. So, you may now apologize for misrepresenting what I actually HAVE stated.

    Suppose I was earning $100K in income and was sick of paying taxes on it. So my employer agreed to not pay me anything, but just give me a $100K house each year as a "gift" or a "benefit." Do you think the government would look fondly on THAT? How is this any different?
    Why do you think that the government deserves to have a cut of every goddamn cent or benefit or anything positive in our lives? We pay a ****ing income tax. That is enough. Forcing us to pay taxes on insurance is only going to make a situation worse. It's not going to change a goddamn thing except make people's wallets even smaller and the government's even bigger. ****ing lovely idea.

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Who the **** is encouraging anyone to stay anywhere? And what government subsidies are you talking about? I'm talking about group rate insurance.
    In effect, the government is allowing you to exclude some of your income on your taxes, if that income is in the form of health insurance rather than cash. If the government was neutral and didn't encourage one form of income over the other, the whole reason that employers provide health insurance would disappear. As it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Having insurance options at a job sure as **** never encouraged me to stay there if the job sucked.
    Good for you. But there are lots of people who it DOES encourage to stay there, because they are terrified of losing their benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Who the **** does like it? And, it DOES have to do with taxing benefits specifically. It has to do with increasing taxes when we're all already paying far too much.
    Just hypothetically, would you be OK with it if it was revenue-neutral? If the government cut the overall income tax rates by a proportionate amount?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Well, my experience working with Humana Insurance says differently.
    And from previous conversations I've had with you, I'm not inclined to believe much of what you say about your health care. Your story just doesn't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    No, they aren't extremely vulnerable since your big government offers COBRA. So no, if they get fired or quit or laid off, they get COBRA that will tide them over until they get a new job.
    Would you eliminate "my big government" COBRA if you could? If so, spare me the bull****.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    And if people stay at crappy ass jobs they hate just for insurance purposes, that's THEIR problem, not mine, and certainly not the governments. If those people are so hard up they can't figure out how to quit one job with benefits and find another with benefits, then how is forcing them to pay more money going to help them?
    It is your problem because it's horrendously inefficient from an economic perspective, which affects GDP, which affects overall wealth and well-being.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Why do you think that the government deserves to have a cut of every goddamn cent or benefit or anything positive in our lives? We pay a ****ing income tax. That is enough. Forcing us to pay taxes on insurance is only going to make a situation worse. It's not going to change a goddamn thing except make people's wallets even smaller and the government's even bigger. ****ing lovely idea.
    Health insurance IS income. Where did you get this strange idea that only cash is income? Employers would start paying people in silver coins, cars, and trinkets if they could get away with it.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And from previous conversations I've had with you, I'm not inclined to believe much of what you say about your health care. Your story just doesn't add up.
    Since you have called me a liar, the conversation is over.

  5. #45
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Where is my $2500 reduction in my health care costs Mr. Obama?


    Anyone?
    It'll come once your taxes go up $5000. But we don't count taxes as cost apparently so you've saved $2500! What a deal!

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