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Thread: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Where is my $2500 reduction in my health care costs Mr. Obama?


    Anyone?
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Because he has extra money that hurts the economy because it's not being spent?
    I am confused by this statement as it is suggesting that the economy is being hurt because the wealthy guy is not sending enough money to the Government. Is this what you intended to imply???

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Why should one guy have extra benefits because he grew up in a wealthy family?
    He has extra benefits because his hard work provides him sufficient wealth that enables him to AFFORD to BUY more insurance or BETTER coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Why should one person have a better education because he lives in a different part of the country?
    Because he can afford a better education than someone who cannot afford it; it is called choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Why shouldn't everybody have universal healthcare? We're all citizens of the same country.
    Because Government managed programs are poorly thought out miserable programs that give their citizens LESS choice and MEDIOCRE care and, as is typified by such programs, the only ones who can OPT for BETTER care are once again the WEALTHY.

    Which brings us to the main question for people like you; when has the Government EVER managed ANYTHING well or in a cost effective manner? Why would you want to become a dependent WARD of the State and accept a mediocre health care system?

    I am always amazed when people make the Marxist statements that because life is not fair, we ALL should suffer under the same pathetic Government managed programs.

    Social Security is a joke and going bankrupt do to abuse and the ponzi scheme it was designed from. Medicare is going bankrupt because of Government mismanagement and corruption. The US postal service even with it's vast monopoly cannot make a profit but instead continues to lose vast amounts of money.

    So here we have the "fairness" mongers like you who once again instead of arguing for people to do MORE for themselves and GET educated and save money for their education, instead argue that the we all would be better off by having our wealth confiscated by the Government and all be given the same pathetic medical care managed by a Government who can't even balance it's own budget let alone manage something as vast as healthcare.

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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Perhaps my hyperbole was a bit exaggerated, ....
    It was a "LOT" exaggerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    ...but it's obvious that Republicans want to cut taxes as far as they can.
    That is NOT what Republicans are wanting. Republicans want MORE responsible Government that manages within the scope of their Constitutional responsibilities and NOT allow politicians to pander to the uninformed masses with Government programs that do NOTHING to make life better but instead allow them to grab MORE political power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    It's equally obvious that government spending actually helps the technology and academia sectors.
    I would like ONE example of Government spending that actually helps technology and academia that is NOT military related.

    I would like ONE example where this has ANYTHING to do with the Health Care debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    It's pretty hard to lead the world in technology and academia if the government doesn't support them.
    What has this got to do with the government manage health care debate?

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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax


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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am confused by this statement as it is suggesting that the economy is being hurt because the wealthy guy is not sending enough money to the Government. Is this what you intended to imply???
    No. Any economist would tell you that an economy that is spending more is a more healthy economy. If a billionaire died (and I'm not advocating this) and his wealth was "redistributed" to the poorest few percentage of the population, the economy would do better. Why? Because money that probably wouldn't be spent by the billionaire would probably be forced to flow from the hands of the poorest because they can't afford anything BUT to spend it all.

    He has extra benefits because his hard work provides him sufficient wealth that enables him to AFFORD to BUY more insurance or BETTER coverage.
    That doesn't match my quote. One person's family has nothing to do with the laziness of an individual. My family is one of the hardest working families that I know. Doesn't mean I'm not really lazy.

    Because he can afford a better education than someone who cannot afford it; it is called choice.
    Wait, what? You don't always choose where you live. This is especially true for children. "Yeah I chose where my parents were moving to. Their job had nothing to do with it." Also, the poor person doesn't have a choice in the matter. What's your argument for that? Either way, he argued why two citizens should be taxed differently. If they're taxed the same, why should they be treated differently?
    Because Government managed programs are poorly thought out miserable programs that give their citizens LESS choice and MEDIOCRE care and, as is typified by such programs, the only ones who can OPT for BETTER care are once again the WEALTHY.
    So because a government owns something it is automatically a failure? That's laughable at best and sad at worst. Second, would you support a plan where anybody who wanted to be covered under a government health care plan would be able to, but others may do as they please and choose a private provider?

    Which brings us to the main question for people like you; when has the Government EVER managed ANYTHING well or in a cost effective manner? Why would you want to become a dependent WARD of the State and accept a mediocre health care system?

    I am always amazed when people make the Marxist statements that because life is not fair, we ALL should suffer under the same pathetic Government managed programs.

    Social Security is a joke and going bankrupt do to abuse and the ponzi scheme it was designed from. Medicare is going bankrupt because of Government mismanagement and corruption. The US postal service even with it's vast monopoly cannot make a profit but instead continues to lose vast amounts of money.

    So here we have the "fairness" mongers like you who once again instead of arguing for people to do MORE for themselves and GET educated and save money for their education, instead argue that the we all would be better off by having our wealth confiscated by the Government and all be given the same pathetic medical care managed by a Government who can't even balance it's own budget let alone manage something as vast as healthcare.
    I guess this all falls into the above. Would you support a plan where people, who wished to be, were supported under a government health care system that provided for them but could opt out for private health care instead? I don't understand how we have millions of Americans dying of preventable illnesses every year and you could care less.

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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It was a "LOT" exaggerated.
    What? If it was a "LOT" exaggerated then I guess you don't mind a "LOT" of taxation. It was a little exaggerated because you want little taxation.

    That is NOT what Republicans are wanting. Republicans want MORE responsible Government that manages within the scope of their Constitutional responsibilities and NOT allow politicians to pander to the uninformed masses with Government programs that do NOTHING to make life better but instead allow them to grab MORE political power.
    Lol, this is about political power? With all that Republicans have been telling me that Obama's doing to the country, how is any of this even popular? Apparently he's destroying America and yet Democrats will keep enough votes to remain in office? Also, that's not what Republicans want. Republicans throw around these words like "responsible" "Constitutional responsibilities" and "uninformed masses" whereas Bush drove us into this recession into the first place. If you really wanted those things, you wouldn't have re-elected the guy.



    I would like ONE example of Government spending that actually helps technology and academia that is NOT military related.
    Scholarships. Grants for research. That's two things. Care for more?
    I would like ONE example where this has ANYTHING to do with the Health Care debate.
    He was talking about taxes (or as he calls it "confiscation of wealth") in general. Taxes don't only go towards health care. They also go towards financing scholarships and grants.

    What has this got to do with the government manage health care debate?
    Same thing as above. It doesn't specifically go towards health care, although I guess grants given to research institutions would lead to cheaper methods (and thus, cheaper health care).

  7. #37
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    What? There is a huge difference b/w getting paid in cash and getting paid in health benefits.

    A healthy person, 18-30, may never go to a doctor, but he will have been paying for something he never used for 12 years. How much cash would that give him on hand over that 12 year period that he could used on other things in life that counted?

    Tell ya what, start paying for the internet at $50 a month. Dont ever actually hook up to it, and do this for the next 12 years, while never actually using it. Then come back and tell us there is no difference. Lets figure out what you could have been buying in place of a $50 a month throw away that you never used.
    You are being paid something of value instead of cash. The fact that you don't choose to use it is irrelevant; there is a monetary cost associated with your employer providing you with health insurance.

    If your employer gives you something valued at $10,000 it should be treated exactly the same as if your employer had gave you an extra $10,000 in cash.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat
    Eliminating the income tax isnt going to send us back to 1913. Sorry, that was just ridiculous to even state.
    Wind the clock back to 1913 was a reference to the year that the income tax was passed. A hundred years later, most of us aren't really looking to return to debates that have been settled long ago. But if you want to keep tilting at windmills, be my guest. It only discredits your views in the eyes of most people and makes you look like an extremist.
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, will your health bennies be taxed under this plan?
    Ya, hopefully.
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    ****ing brilliant. Tax the people who actually have private healthcare and aren't costing the system money. So the people WITH insurance now have to pay even more money. Who's the brainiac that thought up that wonderful idea?
    What is your rationale for treating wages in the form of health insurance as different from wages in the form of cash?
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    Re: Obama not closing door on possible health care tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What is your rationale for treating wages in the form of health insurance as different from wages in the form of cash?
    First off, every time I've had health insurance with a company, I paid for it. I paid hundreds of dollars a month for it. I got a DISCOUNT because it was a group rate.

    Now, you think that because I get a group rate discount with my employer that I should be taxed on top of my insurance costs? Just BECAUSE I have insurance? No offense, but WTF kind of retarded idea is that? Tax the folks with insurance even MORE?

    Secondly, I don't agree with income tax to begin with, so I'm sure as **** not going to agree with increasing that income tax.

    Lastly, having employer supplemented insurance makes it more affordable for people since they are group rate policies, which means you have more people with insurance, which means you have fewer people without insurance, which means you have fewer people who run out on their bills or milk the government assistance, which means that they save all of us money. And now to reward them for saving everyone money, you think they should PAY MORE?

    I mean seriously... It has to be one of the more retarded notions put forth that I've heard in some time.

    Sorry... but this kind of **** absolutely infuriates me to no end.

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