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Thread: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The problem is that you're placing the burden of making that complex decision on school administrators, who are not best suited to handle this.
    I agree with you on this issue. School administrators are not at all qualified to make such decisions.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's not what the court said though - they made it clear that there were situations in which the school would be justified in strip searching students.
    Whether or not their meaning was clear -- case law has been created. Everytime a case such as this arises attorneys for the plaintiff are going to use this case as a citation of general opinion of the highest court in the land.

    Moreover, schools are NEVER justified in conducting strip searches of minor children.

    The police are not even legally allowed to conduct a strip search. That duty falls to the jailers when a subject is incarcerated. That being said ... how can you even defend the actions of the school?

    The school was wrong. The administrators were wrong. The administrators, the school, and the school district are all going to be paying out the ass for their absolute violation of that girl's rights.

    Based on what occurred, I would not be surprise if the school district is forced to fire some employees because of what occurred.

    Also ... you need to lay off the pro-righty, business can do no wrong attitude. They were wrong for doing what they did... you are wrong for agreeing with them and defending their deploreable actions.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The problem is that you're placing the burden of making that complex decision on school administrators, who are not best suited to handle this.
    I don't agree that school administrators are so incapable of determining what is 'reasonable' that they will routinely overstep the bounds of the law. Especially if they seek to remain well inside the law and not try to push the bounds. However, if they are incapable, then please read my response to C. Thomas, below. The response is meshed with responding to your stuff as well.






    That's not what the court said though - they made it clear that there were situations in which the school would be justified in strip searching students.
    I clearly acknowledged that the court said what you are asserting. My declaration was that IF (as Thomas claims) the law is too vague, and needs to be tightened up, we have two choices:
    • We could automatically default to "oh well, I guess we'll have to allow strip searches for anything the administrators wish and interpret unreasonable search and seizure right out of the constitution" (as Thomas does), OR
    • We could default to "No way are we going to allow them to strip search at their discretion, so, since the law can't be made clear without serious encroachment on liberty, strip searches are hereby banned altogether as unconstitutional".
    I can't believe that he concluded the former. It IS outrageous.

    If we have reached a point where we can't handle our freedom responsibly, let our society crumble under the weight of that behavior. Don't use that irresponsibility as an excuse to encroach on freedom. Let the strain be its own teacher, and have patience and faith that society will (eventually) pressure us all to be decent citizens of high integrity.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 06-27-09 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Whether or not their meaning was clear -- case law has been created. Everytime a case such as this arises attorneys for the plaintiff are going to use this case as a citation of general opinion of the highest court in the land.

    Moreover, schools are NEVER justified in conducting strip searches of minor children.
    Except that's not what the court said. Did you read the opinion at all?

    The police are not even legally allowed to conduct a strip search. That duty falls to the jailers when a subject is incarcerated. That being said ... how can you even defend the actions of the school?

    The school was wrong. The administrators were wrong. The administrators, the school, and the school district are all going to be paying out the ass for their absolute violation of that girl's rights.
    No, the administrators are not. Again, did you read the opinion at all?

    Also ... you need to lay off the pro-righty, business can do no wrong attitude. They were wrong for doing what they did... you are wrong for agreeing with them and defending their deploreable actions.
    Government-run public schools = businesses? Who knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I don't agree that school administrators are so incapable of determining what is 'reasonable' that they will routinely overstep the bounds of the law. Especially if they seek to remain well inside the law and not try to push the bounds. However, if they are incapable, then please read my response to C. Thomas, below. The response is meshed with responding to your stuff as well.

    I clearly acknowledged that the court said what you are asserting. My declaration was that IF (as Thomas claims) the law is too vague, and needs to be tightened up, we have two choices:
    • We could automatically default to "oh well, I guess we'll have to allow strip searches for anything the administrators wish and interpret unreasonable search and seizure right out of the constitution" (as Thomas does), OR
    • We could default to "No way are we going to allow them to strip search at their discretion, so, since the law can't be made clear without serious encroachment on liberty, strip searches are hereby banned altogether as unconstitutional".
    I can't believe that he concluded the former. It IS outrageous.

    If we have reached a point where we can't handle our freedom responsibly, let our society crumble under the weight of that behavior. Don't use that irresponsibility as an excuse to encroach on freedom. Let the strain be its own teacher, and have patience and faith that society will (eventually) pressure us all to be decent citizens of high integrity.
    Or, we could reach choice number 3: Schools continue to exercise their basic authority, but if they believe that a kid has drugs/guns/etc, they don't touch the kid and just call the cops instead.

    That can still happen under the current framework, but it could have happened under the old framework as well.

    Again, I'm not so much bothered by the outcome in this case as I am irritated by the fact that it was such a useless case to hear compared to so many others. This is a perfect example of a fact-driven case that will not carry weight outside of its narrow boundaries.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    No, they do not.

    The SCOTUS ruled the search illegal.

    Therefore, the lower court is required to make a judgment in accordance with the instuctions of the SCOTUS.
    I didn't claim otherwise.

    The legality of the search is not at hand; whether individual administrators will be protected from damages now will be.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Hopefully the girl and her parents sue the **** out of the school. This should teach any school official not to allow that same kind of **** again.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Except that's not what the court said. Did you read the opinion at all?
    Stop defending the school's nazi behavior. I know it's hard for you right-wingers ... but try anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No, the administrators are not. Again, did you read the opinion at all?
    I disagree. The school IS responsible for its employees actions under the doctrine of Respondeat Superior. Therefore, the school and the district ARE going to be paying out.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Government-run public schools = businesses? Who knew.
    Yet more evidence of the republican train of thought.

    Schools ARE NOT businesses because they are funded by tax dollars. This makes them different than a business in to many ways to list.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Or, we could reach choice number 3: Schools continue to exercise their basic authority, but if they believe that a kid has drugs/guns/etc, they don't touch the kid and just call the cops instead.
    Since the police cannot conduct a strip search legally ... calling the police would not be all that useful.

    In any event, the SCOTUS ruled the search "illegal" ... which means the school is wrong.

    Therefore, the girl is entitled to money damages and the officials in question should and probably will lose their jobs.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Stop defending the school's nazi behavior. I know it's hard for you right-wingers ... but try anyway.
    What the **** does this have to do with what I said?

    English mother****er, do you speak it?
    I disagree. The school IS responsible for its employees actions under the doctrine of Respondeat Superior. Therefore, the school and the district ARE going to be paying out.
    READ WHAT I SAID. I didn't disagree.
    Yet more evidence of the republican train of thought.

    Schools ARE NOT businesses because they are funded by tax dollars. This makes them different than a business in to many ways to list.
    Please tell me you're not serious - THAT WAS MY POINT. Holy ****, this is mindbogglingly painful.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I didn't claim otherwise.

    The legality of the search is not at hand; whether individual administrators will be protected from damages now will be.
    The school is liable. They are not above the law and they are not immune from damages.

    I suspect the school district will be paying out.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    The school is liable. They are not above the law and they are not immune from damages.

    I suspect the school district will be paying out.
    "The school" =/= "the administrators"

    That's sort of the whole point.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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