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Thread: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

  1. #51
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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    You're right, an illegal search is an illegal search. Doesn't really matter what they find because it was illegal. Let's say you know a guy's a rapist but can't prove it. You break into his house and find panties of the victim with his semen on it. Guess what, you can't use that as evidence now and the rapist goes free. Same concept here. Illegal searches help nobody because you have to break the law in the first place.

    Second, as for "finding a gun" I'm gonna throw up a straw-man because it seems like the thing to do here and I feel like it would be a wasted opportunity not to. "Blah blah blah, 2nd Amendment, blah blah blah, right to bear arms... what if she shot a guy who was trying to rape a child with her illegal gun... hypothetical hypothetical blah blah blah.
    They didn't say that it's always an illegal search.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    So....he casts a dissenting vote away from Scalia occassionally....so what?
    So your claim that he blindly follows Scalia is essentially ****. He doesn't vote with Scalia (or, more accurately, Scalia doesn't vote with him) any more than Alito votes with Roberts or Stevens votes with Breyer.

    The man hasn't authored a single opinion of significance in the decades that he has been on the court.
    Just off the top of my head:

    GOOD NEWS CLUB V. MILFORD CENTRAL SCHOOL

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/05-130.ZO.html

    Staples v. United States, 511 U.S. 600 (1994).

    14 PENN PLAZA LLC v. PYETT

    And that's only of his opinions. He's at his best when he's concurring or dissenting to make a point.

    I'm sure that if I bothered to go through this list, I'd find plenty more:

    Supreme Court Collection: Opinions by Justice Thomas

    He is well known for not engaging in questioning during hearings, despite the fact that he may have done so on a couple of ocassions.
    What does this have to do with anything? Please don't tell me that you view one's level of interaction at oral arguments as indicative of anything beyond the desire to hear oneself speak.

    I work in the legal profession....I read Supreme Court opinions daily......so your criticism that somehow I haven't studied Thomas and know what I am talking about is unfounded.
    Then why is it that you can't offer a remotely cogent criticism of him, and instead resort to the overplayed and completely uninformed "he just follows scalia, he doesn't talk, he's dumb, etc."?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  2. #52
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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    They didn't say that it's always an illegal search.



    So your claim that he blindly follows Scalia is essentially ****. He doesn't vote with Scalia (or, more accurately, Scalia doesn't vote with him) any more than Alito votes with Roberts or Stevens votes with Breyer.



    Just off the top of my head:

    GOOD NEWS CLUB V. MILFORD CENTRAL SCHOOL





    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/05-130.ZO.html

    Staples v. United States, 511 U.S. 600 (1994).

    14 PENN PLAZA LLC v. PYETT

    And that's only of his opinions. He's at his best when he's concurring or dissenting to make a point.

    I'm sure that if I bothered to go through this list, I'd find plenty more:

    Supreme Court Collection: Opinions by Justice Thomas



    What does this have to do with anything? Please don't tell me that you view one's level of interaction at oral arguments as indicative of anything beyond the desire to hear oneself speak.



    Then why is it that you can't offer a remotely cogent criticism of him, and instead resort to the overplayed and completely uninformed "he just follows scalia, he doesn't talk, he's dumb, etc."?


    Your side lost

    Accept it and move on.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I think this is fantastic news!

    I hope the lower court holds the school liable. I really do.
    Since the Supreme Court found that the school officials were wrong ... the lower court really has no choice.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Since the Supreme Court found that the school officials were wrong ... the lower court really has no choice.
    Yes, they do. The issue of whether there's protection of these school officials by qualified immunity is subject to further dispute.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Excellent decision ! the actions of those school administrators is another example of over-reaction to a problem or situation. I am sure that somewhere a similar over-reaction to a bullying or "hatespeech" problem has occured. Good work Supremes !!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    No tolerance rules.
    No tolerance is absolutism. Absolutism nagates any opportunity to apply reason and most likely negates logic.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    This ruling was perfect. The notion that we must have absolutely clear, unyielding standards makes for unjust law enforcement. It is ridiculous that some of us think we can have black and white rules for society, and American jurisprudence has recognized this from its inception: The very language 'unreasonable search and seizure' insists on making the matter a judgement call... an inherently fuzzy proposition.

    Life is a fuzzy proposition, and if we insist on 'black and white' rules to live by, then we should err on the side of liberty and not on the side of oppression. What the court reinforced, here, is that we can have effective law enforcement standards that can weigh the fuzzy circumstances of life. In so doing, they are attempting not to err on either the side of liberty or oppression. They are attempting to provide us with a Jurisprudence that reflects life.

    While it may be a mistake to interpret the law so 'flexibly', the answer is NOT authoritarian measures. I would rather have kids in school with guns in their panties than allow school administrators to strip search students in the apparently 'critical' hunt for illicit ibuprofen. If we have reached the point where such strip searches are 'necessary', then we have already failed, and there is no point in trying to 'save ourselves' through such invasive acts.

    We need a moral society, not an authoritarian one. Really.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Your side lost

    Accept it and move on.
    Thanks for this high quality legal analysis, chief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    This ruling was perfect. The notion that we must have absolutely clear, unyielding standards makes for unjust law enforcement. It is ridiculous that some of us think we can have black and white rules for society, and American jurisprudence has recognized this from its inception: The very language 'unreasonable search and seizure' insists on making the matter a judgement call... an inherently fuzzy proposition.

    Life is a fuzzy proposition, and if we insist on 'black and white' rules to live by, then we should err on the side of liberty and not on the side of oppression. What the court reinforced, here, is that we can have effective law enforcement standards that can weigh the fuzzy circumstances of life. In so doing, they are attempting not to err on either the side of liberty or oppression. They are attempting to provide us with a Jurisprudence that reflects life.
    The problem is that you're placing the burden of making that complex decision on school administrators, who are not best suited to handle this.

    While it may be a mistake to interpret the law so 'flexibly', the answer is NOT authoritarian measures. I would rather have kids in school with guns in their panties than allow school administrators to strip search students in the apparently 'critical' hunt for illicit ibuprofen.
    That's not what the court said though - they made it clear that there were situations in which the school would be justified in strip searching students.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    They didn't say that it's always an illegal search.
    Eh, I was specifically replying to his post about illegal searches.

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    Re: Top court rules strip search of teen was illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Yes, they do. The issue of whether there's protection of these school officials by qualified immunity is subject to further dispute.
    No, they do not.

    The SCOTUS ruled the search illegal.

    Therefore, the lower court is required to make a judgment in accordance with the instuctions of the SCOTUS.

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