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Court OKs dumping gold mine waste in lake

Middleground said:
Since gold has been first mined, humans have found no more than what will fill 2 Olympic-sized swimming pools. Yet I am being told it's being used for a ton of more things besides bling. What am I to believe? There's only so much to go around.
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Because you come in contact with stuff everyday that you have no idea about.
(I'm not saying that in an insulting way but most people don't care enough to ask or look)

When you come into contact with gold, you will almost always see it and that represents to you what the majority of it is used for.

Metals like gold can be mixed with other metals to form composites and alloys.
The carat rating of gold is a measure of purity, 24k gold is the most pure form while 12k is only 50% gold.

If you own a car and live in a modern house I can guarantee you that their are things in it which are radioactive and things that are made out of precious metals that you have never thought of.

Want some uranium? It's one of the rarest elements on earth but I'm betting that their may be some under your home.
 
RightinNYC said:
I don't know about the truth of your first statement, but why would that disprove the second?
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Because there is only so much to go around, no? It's difficult to find and mine. Gold is now mostly found small flecks at a time, that is the primary reason there's so little found.

For all of its allure, gold's human and environmental toll has never been so steep. Part of the challenge, as well as the fascination, is that there is so little of it. In all of history, only 161,000 tons of gold have been mined, barely enough to fill two Olympic-size swimming pools. More than half of that has been extracted in the past 50 years. Now the world's richest deposits are fast being depleted, and new discoveries are rare. Gone are the hundred-mile-long gold reefs in South Africa or cherry-size nuggets in California. Most of the gold left to mine exists as traces buried in remote and fragile corners of the globe. It's an invitation to destruction. But there is no shortage of miners, big and small, who are willing to accept.
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And according to an excellent National Geographic article, 2/3s of gold is used for... drum roll... bling:

While investors flock to new gold-backed funds, jewelry still accounts for two-thirds of the demand, generating a record $53.5 billion in worldwide sales in 2007.
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As for the effects caused by gold mining (and this is just a small blurb):

The deadly effects of mercury are equally hazardous to small-scale miners. Most use mercury to separate gold from rock, spreading poison in both gas and liquid forms. UNIDO estimates that one-third of all mercury released by humans into the environment comes from artisanal gold mining. This turns places like La Rinconada into a sort of Shangri-la in reverse: The pursuit of a metal linked to immortality only serves to hasten the miners' own mortality.
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It's a very well-written and researched article. I encourage you to read it.

The Real Price of Gold — National Geographic Magazine
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Because you come in contact with stuff everyday that you have no idea about.
(I'm not saying that in an insulting way but most people don't care enough to ask or look)

When you come into contact with gold, you will almost always see it and that represents to you what the majority of it is used for.

Metals like gold can be mixed with other metals to form composites and alloys.
The carat rating of gold is a measure of purity, 24k gold is the most pure form while 12k is only 50% gold.

If you own a car and live in a modern house I can guarantee you that their are things in it which are radioactive and things that are made out of precious metals that you have never thought of.

Want some uranium? It's one of the rarest elements on earth but I'm betting that their may be some under your home.
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I see what you're saying, but two-thirds of all gold that has been found is used for bling. Since we have not found much to begin with, how can one third of 2 Olympic sized swimming pool be used in mass quantities for a ton of other things???
 
Oftencold said:
This is Alaska; a 23 acre lake is a puddle, put 50 of them together and you have an ornamental pond.

Don't all of you have environmental problems in your own (tiny) States that need your attention?
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For real. I would be far more concerned with polluting one of the wetlands than I am over containing it in one of the hundreds of lakes.

And besides, when it all settles, the lake will be three times its current size and restocked with fish.
 
Middleground said:
Because there is only so much to go around, no? It's difficult to find and mine. Gold is now mostly found small flecks at a time, that is the primary reason there's so little found.

And according to an excellent National Geographic article, 2/3s of gold is used for... drum roll... bling:
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Blame India.

As for the effects caused by gold mining (and this is just a small blurb):

It's a very well-written and researched article. I encourage you to read it.

The Real Price of Gold — National Geographic Magazine
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That's a very real concern. It seems like this case was only about whether the waste would be dumped in a lake or put on dry land. It also doesn't necessarily follow the the residue of this particular project is so dangerous as to cause serious problems.

Middleground said:
I see what you're saying, but two-thirds of all gold that has been found is used for bling. Since we have not found much to begin with, how can one third of 2 Olympic sized swimming pool be used in mass quantities for a ton of other things???
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Why do you think it can't be? Read the stuff I cited above.

Even if we assume that 2/3 is in jewelery, 50,000 tons is still a lot of gold. Each electronic device using it probably only uses something on the order of .1 grams, which would allow for 500,000,000,000 uses.
 
Middleground said:
I see what you're saying, but two-thirds of all gold that has been found is used for bling. Since we have not found much to begin with, how can one third of 2 Olympic sized swimming pool be used in mass quantities for a ton of other things???
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A lot of times gold is mixed with other metals, making gold composites and alloys. They do this a lot with jewelery.

You have to remember to, that in the pool example there are no air pockets in between the gold. Air pockets, bubbles and other things make something look bigger than it actually is.

Its a mass and volume thing.
 
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FLensman said:
Why do you think there's arsenic in it? Just because wikipedia says there is arsenic in some tailings doesn't mean, obviously, that it is present in all of them.
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Because mine tailings generally have arsenic along with other chemicals? Go run a google search for arsenic tailing concentrations. You'll find numerous reports from a variety of mines.

You don't have any idea what the original concentration is, but you think after dilution that the concentration will likely still be high?
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I realized you likely never learned this in school, but read the entire post and reply to the entire post. Don't lift one line out, strip out the context and then ignore everything else.
 
jallman said:
For real. I would be far more concerned with polluting one of the wetlands than I am over containing it in one of the hundreds of lakes.
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But what's with the false dichotomy? There are never just two ways of disposal.

And besides, when it all settles, the lake will be three times its current size and restocked with fish.
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Where did you get that from?

So it doesn't bother you that federal guidelines regarding mining tailings allow toxic chemicals in high concentrations to be dumped pretty much anywhere? How would you feel if this was your neighborhood?
 
obvious Child said:
But what's with the false dichotomy? There are never just two ways of disposal.
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They were the only two mentioned in the article, so yeah, for purposes of this conversation, there are only two ways to dispose.


Where did you get that from?
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Uh...from the article which I assumed everyone else had read before making comments...

The lake will be as good or better as a fishery than it is today," Ebersole said. The waste deposits are expected to raise the lakebed 50 feet to the current lake surface level and eventually triple its size to 60 acres.
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So it doesn't bother you that federal guidelines regarding mining tailings allow toxic chemicals in high concentrations to be dumped pretty much anywhere? How would you feel if this was your neighborhood?
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Nothing in the article indicates that they can be "dumped pretty much anywhere". Before I make any judgments about this, I would like to see the regulations listed in the actual permit along with the guidelines and standards used in issuing it. :shrug:

As long as I didn't actually own the lake or it did't supply water to my home, I wouldn't care especially considering the long term goals. If I did own the lake, I would probably be inclined to sell the rights to it for the duration of the project.
 
RightinNYC said:
Concentration is important.
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Sure, but there's more to it than that. From the little I just read on the subject, level of toxicity, persistence and bioaccumulation are important.

But I would rather we don't crap where we eat. Heavy metals that are deposited in low concentrations through the Earth are not as potentially dangerous as high concentrations poured into a lake.

I was reading the other day in the Orlando Sentinel about the 'treated' effluent that flows from Orange county south, and creates a polluting sludge in the Everglades. Course, the sugar farmers in south Florida have been flooding that area with their refuse too. It seems we are not smart enough to find ways to deal with the many different types of toxic garbage we create. Looks like the only answer to our sewage problem is to pump it into a waterway and hope it flows somewhere else.
 
RightinNYC said:
Blame India.
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Silly answer.



That's a very real concern. It seems like this case was only about whether the waste would be dumped in a lake or put on dry land. It also doesn't necessarily follow the the residue of this particular project is so dangerous as to cause serious problems.
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Getting rid of toxic waste should always be a concern! And for the amount we find, is it worth the destruction?


Why do you think it can't be? Read the stuff I cited above.

Even if we assume that 2/3 is in jewelery, 50,000 tons is still a lot of gold. Each electronic device using it probably only uses something on the order of .1 grams, which would allow for 500,000,000,000 uses.
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50,000 is not a lot, in my view, especially when comparing to other mined metals.

Let's look at silver, as an example:

Average Cumulative World Gold Production = 4.25 billion ounces
Average Cumulative World Silver Production = 44.542 billion ounces
 
Middleground said:
50,000 is not a lot, in my view, especially when comparing to other mined metals.

Let's look at silver, as an example:

Average Cumulative World Gold Production = 4.25 billion ounces
Average Cumulative World Silver Production = 44.542 billion ounces
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And that is why gold is worth so much more than silver.
 
Middleground said:
Silly answer.
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Not really.

Gold Fever - TIME

The gilding of the nation's temples is an aspect of one of mankind's great investment obsessions: the Indian love of gold. The country buys at least one-fifth of the global gold supply each year, making it the world's largest consumer of the metal. Experts believe that 15,000 to 20,000 tons of bars, ingots and jewelry is locked up in India's bank vaults and household safes. Indians are furiously adding to that horde.
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Getting rid of toxic waste should always be a concern! And for the amount we find, is it worth the destruction?
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Maybe not to you, but the same calculus has to be considered in all consumption of natural resources.

50,000 is not a lot, in my view, especially when comparing to other mined metals.

Let's look at silver, as an example:

Average Cumulative World Gold Production = 4.25 billion ounces
Average Cumulative World Silver Production = 44.542 billion ounces
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I still don't know what you think this proves. Yes, it's less common than other metals. However, it's far more valuable due to both scarcity and it's incredible utility.
 
Who actually owns the lake in question?
 
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