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Mousavi spokesman calls Khamenei a dictator

Kandahar

Kandahar

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I speak for Mousavi. And Iran | Mohsen Makhmalbaf | Comment is free | The Guardian

Since the 1979 revolution Iran has had 80% dictatorship and 20% democracy. We have dictatorship because one person is in charge, the supreme leader – first Khomeini, now Khamenei. He controls the army and the clergy, the justice system and the media, as well as our oil money.
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I think this is the first instance of direct confrontation between Mousavi and Khamenei. Up until now, Mousavi has been hesitant to directly attack the Supreme Leader. Whatever happens in the coming days, Khamenei's credibility among the ruling class has been severely damaged.
 
confronting the power of the Ayatollah....that is historic.
 
Kandahar said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/19/iran-election-mousavi-ahmadinejadI think this is the first instance of direct confrontation between Mousavi and Khamenei. Up until now, Mousavi has been hesitant to directly attack the Supreme Leader. Whatever happens in the coming days, Khamenei's credibility among the ruling class has been severely damaged.
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Where is Rasfanjani in all of this? I haven't seen anything from him in several days.

Rasfanjani is the head of the Assembly of Experts. He potentially could muster enough mullahs to remove Khameni as Supreme Leader. Mousavi is "his" proxy in the presidential contest just like Ahamenijad is Khameni's proxy.
 
celticlord said:
Where is Rasfanjani in all of this? I haven't seen anything from him in several days.

Rasfanjani is the head of the Assembly of Experts. He potentially could muster enough mullahs to remove Khameni as Supreme Leader. Mousavi is "his" proxy in the presidential contest just like Ahamenijad is Khameni's proxy.
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Rafsanjani primarily works behind the scenes, and is no doubt milking the protests for all they're worth to see how he can shift the balance of power in his favor. The last I heard (which was several days ago), people close to Rafsanjani indicated that he was meeting with members of the Assembly of Experts to see if he had enough votes to depose Khamenei.
 
Kandahar said:
Rafsanjani primarily works behind the scenes, and is no doubt milking the protests for all they're worth to see how he can shift the balance of power in his favor. The last I heard (which was several days ago), people close to Rafsanjani indicated that he was meeting with members of the Assembly of Experts to see if he had enough votes to depose Khamenei.
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Any thoughts on how to view the reports of escalating crackdowns on protests? Is Khameni showing his strength or his weakness?
 
celticlord said:
Any thoughts on how to view the reports of escalating crackdowns on protests? Is Khameni showing his strength or his weakness?
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The million dollar question, I think we'll find out when the dust settles, does Khameni truly have enough power to supress this movement, or is this a last desperate effort to hold on to power.
 
In the Ayatololah's face. :)

Perhaps the North Koreans have a thing or two to learn from the Iranians.
 
celticlord said:
Any thoughts on how to view the reports of escalating crackdowns on protests? Is Khameni showing his strength or his weakness?
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Sadly, probably his strength. I think that the more he cracks down, the stronger his position gets. He may have to make some token concessions to the reformists, but he'll probably still be running the show.

But I'd love to be proven wrong about that.
 
Its high time the Iranians we're gifted the beauty of Democracy, the civil unrest shows me they want freedom, fair voting, and they are not willing to sit back and get opressed. Im hopeful the rioting can spark a new revolution, out with Ahmedenijad and Khamenini, and in with Mousavi!
 
kaya'08 said:
Its high time the Iranians we're gifted the beauty of Democracy, the civil unrest shows me they want freedom, fair voting, and they are not willing to sit back and get opressed. Im hopeful the rioting can spark a new revolution, out with Ahmedenijad and Khamenini, and in with Mousavi!
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And Mousavi will just repress them himself, after they die for him. Unfortunately, I think that the most innocent and noble of players in this are going to suffer for a bunch of corrupt old men, and no significant change in the country will result.
 
Redress said:
And Mousavi will just repress them himself, after they die for him. Unfortunately, I think that the most innocent and noble of players in this are going to suffer for a bunch of corrupt old men, and no significant change in the country will result.
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I think its more the level of repression the Iranians care about, not the fact that they are getting repressed :lol:

Anyway, i thought this mousavi man admired the west and was a "reformist"?
 
kaya'08 said:
I think its more the level of repression the Iranians care about, not the fact that they are getting repressed :lol:

Anyway, i thought this mousavi man admired the west and was a "reformist"?
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Reformist in a relative way. He would not enact any significant changes from what I can see, and any he tried he would not be able to get past the Guardian Council. Mohammad Khatami was a reformer, and his attempts got shot down pretty consistantly.
 
Redress said:
Reformist in a relative way. He would not enact any significant changes from what I can see, and any he tried he would not be able to get past the Guardian Council. Mohammad Khatami was a reformer, and his attempts got shot down pretty consistantly.
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So its the Ayatollah's that are opressing the Iranians, not Mousavi. Ive never seen or heard anything that would indicate Mousavi's policies reflect that of a dictatorship like the Gaurdian Councils little bitch Ahmedenijad.
 
Kandahar said:
Sadly, probably his strength. I think that the more he cracks down, the stronger his position gets. He may have to make some token concessions to the reformists, but he'll probably still be running the show.

But I'd love to be proven wrong about that.
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Much depends on how much Mousavi can inspire the protesters.

When the Shah was deposed by Khomeni, he at first attempted to quash the protests with force--with the result being further protest.

Tienanmen Square and Timişoara are good object lessons here. In Tienanmen Square, China's Politburo used overwhelming force to disperse a peaceful protest, using sufficient force to keep protests at bay until the movement had fragmented and lost all momentum. In Timişoara, Ceaucescu underestimated the depths of passions of the people arrayed against him, failed to bring massive force to bear, and his attempt to arrest and evict László Tőkés touched of a mass and largely spontaneous uprising.

Khameni is cracking down. Is he doing too little, too late, or is he finally roused in his wrath and showing his power?

Tehran 1999 was Tienanmen Square redux. Is Tehran 2009 Tienanmen Square redux, or Timişoara redux?
 
By employing and condoning the Basiji, the Supreme Leader has proven he is not a man of God, not a representative of Mohammed or the Koran, but simply a thug in a turban, manipulating the people of Iran for the pleasure of power.
 
Kandahar said:
I speak for Mousavi. And Iran | Mohsen Makhmalbaf | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think this is the first instance of direct confrontation between Mousavi and Khamenei. Up until now, Mousavi has been hesitant to directly attack the Supreme Leader. Whatever happens in the coming days, Khamenei's credibility among the ruling class has been severely damaged.
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I think that the Supreme Grand Great Poompa-Uumppa leader is insulted because those pesky students are out there demonstrating for their rights.

I tell you those Iraniac students have THE AUDACITY to HOPE for a democratic Iranistan !!
 
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WillRockwell said:
By employing and condoning the Basiji, the Supreme Leader has proven he is not a man of God, not a representative of Mohammed or the Koran, but simply a thug in a turban, manipulating the people of Iran for the pleasure of power.
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a "a thug in a turban" ! You evil insulting Western Imperialist how dare you attack The Great Poompa Uumppa leader !! a fatwat will be placed upon you.
 
I'm pretty sure this guy is in France. If not its another spokesman that is...

Now I hope he is expressing a more militant anti-theocracy held by the people in the streets of Tehran. BUT with all the disinformation rumors etc going around..who knows if its them or just his personal opinion..who knows if Mousavi has even talked to this guy in a week.

Hope its true..hope it turns into a revolution...hope the USA gets a president that vocally supports it without long winded pontifications and broad loopholes in language. Its pretty sad that the former is more likely then the later.
 
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With the government cracking down on protesters more forcefully now...I think this is the beginning of the end for the protests, unfortunately. But we'll see.
 
I see absolutely nothing happening in Iran but the conditions favorable for the ascendancy of a far more rigid dictatorship.

An impromptu uprising, with little in the way of a central guiding philosophy, almost no clearly defined goals, no firm leaders and above all, no arms is very likely to be suppressed with a massive application of automatic gunfire.

Whichever despot is first to seize control of the military and begin firing will probably declare himself supreme leader.

The new regime may be secular, or it might be an even more repressive theocracy.

In my opinion, the uprising and the protesters are doomed.
 
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Recall the sad lesson of hungaery 1956

Triad said:
I'm pretty sure this guy is in France. If not its another spokesman that is...

Now I hope he is expressing a more militant anti-theocracy held by the people in the streets of Tehran. BUT with all the disinformation rumors etc going around..who knows if its them or just his personal opinion..who knows if Mousavi has even talked to this guy in a week.

Hope its true..hope it turns into a revolution...hope the USA gets a president that vocally supports it without long winded pontifications and broad loopholes in language. Its pretty sad that the former is more likely then the later.
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I of course am fully supporting the opposition in Iran but I also know well the limits of what a US president can do. I also know that a US President needs to be carefull not to give false hope to the Iranian opposition.

I was a kid when the Hunagarians revolted against the Red monsters. The US through RADO FREE EUROPE and RADIO LIBERTY was encourgaing them. What the poor Hungarians didn't realized was that was all it WAS "ENCOURAGEMENT.

When the Soviets sent in the Red army to squash the revolt the poor Hunagarians waited and waited for US and allied troops to come in and reque them. No such luck.

I realize that this is not exactly the same but Obama cannot over-encourage the Iranian oppostion into a false sense of support.

Are we ready to invade Iran !! I hardly think so. If we did wouldn't the opposition close ranks with the Mullah Bombula's ? Ya betcha !
 
Redress said:
Reformist in a relative way. He would not enact any significant changes from what I can see, and any he tried he would not be able to get past the Guardian Council. Mohammad Khatami was a reformer, and his attempts got shot down pretty consistantly.
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You when President Obama said that there would not be that fundamental a diference in the realtionship between the forces of "opposition" and the current gang of thugs he was correct. He should not have made that public but he is correct.
 
Kandahar said:
With the government cracking down on protesters more forcefully now...I think this is the beginning of the end for the protests, unfortunately. But we'll see.
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I think you're right.
 
Kandahar said:
I speak for Mousavi. And Iran | Mohsen Makhmalbaf | Comment is free | The Guardian



I think this is the first instance of direct confrontation between Mousavi and Khamenei. Up until now, Mousavi has been hesitant to directly attack the Supreme Leader. Whatever happens in the coming days, Khamenei's credibility among the ruling class has been severely damaged.
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Still indirect but a good start. Mousavi is in serious danger now, he is now seen as challenging the theocratic closed circle of power. Count me surprised I didn't think he had any real reformist credentials whatsoever.
 
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