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Thread: France considers banning the burqa

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Sure I guess that's why the only women who wear them are Muslim short of Mary circa 1 AD.
    There is nothing in the Koran about the Burqa, hence it is not part of Islam.

    What it is part off is local traditions in the region, which comes from in part the subjugation of women by any and all means by men. Women are property and hence need to be "protected" from the competition and covering them up is a great way of doing so. So yes, the Burqa is a symbol of oppression of women pure and simple. It is no different than a chastity belt from the middle ages.. I doubt that you would agree with them now would you?
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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is nothing in the Koran about the Burqa, hence it is not part of Islam.

    What it is part off is local traditions in the region, which comes from in part the subjugation of women by any and all means by men. Women are property and hence need to be "protected" from the competition and covering them up is a great way of doing so. So yes, the Burqa is a symbol of oppression of women pure and simple. It is no different than a chastity belt from the middle ages.. I doubt that you would agree with them now would you?
    The Burqa is not oppressive unless one is forced to wear it, denial of the right to wear it is inherently oppressive.

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The Burqa is not oppressive unless one is forced to wear it, denial of the right to wear it is inherently oppressive.
    Which many women are and that is the point. Either it is direct force or because of "peer" pressure, but regardless it is force.
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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Which many women are and that is the point. Either it is direct force or because of "peer" pressure, but regardless it is force.
    Codified anti-peer pressure laws? Are you joking?

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is nothing in the Koran about the Burqa, hence it is not part of Islam.

    What it is part off is local traditions in the region, which comes from in part the subjugation of women by any and all means by men. Women are property and hence need to be "protected" from the competition and covering them up is a great way of doing so. So yes, the Burqa is a symbol of oppression of women pure and simple. It is no different than a chastity belt from the middle ages.. I doubt that you would agree with them now would you?
    very similar to some orthodox Jewish women wearing wigs to cover their real hair when they go out,so it will inflame men

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Only in free countries.

    France isn't a free country.


    Okay, Akhbar, whatever you say.
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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is nothing in the Koran about the Burqa, hence it is not part of Islam.
    Why is that relevant? If a woman wants to wear the burqa, if she chooses to wear the burqa, what is France to say that she should not?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What it is part off is local traditions in the region, which comes from in part the subjugation of women by any and all means by men. Women are property and hence need to be "protected" from the competition and covering them up is a great way of doing so. So yes, the Burqa is a symbol of oppression of women pure and simple. It is no different than a chastity belt from the middle ages.. I doubt that you would agree with them now would you?
    Whether it is religious or cultural is an irrelevant distinction. What is relevant is that the burqa is part of the traditions of certain peoples. They should be respected.

    If a woman chose to be put into a chastity belt, she should be allowed that as well.

    People should be allowed to live their lives as they will, with minimal interference from government. Government certainly has no business telling anyone what they can and cannot wear.

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    I think there is all the difference in the world between a woman wearing a burka because she is oppressed and because she chooses.

    I think, though this may not always be the case, that in Western societies, it is a choice and usually a political choice.

    I do understand not being able to wear them at school and not being able to do certain jobs in them. They make communication very difficult and you do not necessarily know who is underneath unless you know them very well.

    However, when you get to the hijab, I think any kind of denial is a denial of that person's rights.

    I remember seeing on tv a young woman in Turkey looking for a 'really ugly wig' because she could not wear a hijab and go to University. To her, to her herself, it was very important to do this.

    Not allowing people to wear the hijab is arguably discrimination.

    Headscarf Ban Causes Discrimination-EP- SELCUK GULTASLI

    Headscarf ban for German teachers is denounced | Spero News
    Last edited by alexa; 06-21-09 at 10:37 AM.

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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Codified anti-peer pressure laws? Are you joking?
    Where did I say that? I am only stating the fact that wearing the burqa is placed on girls at a young age by male and female members of the family. It has nothing to do with religion but an attempt by a male dominated traditional society to control the female sex.

    What would you do if you knew that small girls are being forced by their fathers to cover up? You are trying to defend the free will of these women, but what if there is no free will involved? What if they refused to wear the burqa, the consequences would be a beating? Where is the free will in that?

    The French like other nations have looked at the situation have determined that something must be done to help women in that part of society to break away from a male dominated oppression. In Denmark we were forced to ban all marriage by people under 24 with someone from outside Denmark, just to some how curb all the forced marriages in the Turkish/Kurdish/Pakistani/Iraqi/Somalia community. I dont like the law one bit, nore would I like a law banning the burqa but I understand its reasoning and frankly some what support it.
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    Re: France considers banning the burqa

    Any talk about "choice" needs to take into account consequences. If there are no consequences involved in a choice, one is making a true choice. If there are consequences involved, especially if they are negative, the term "choice" really does not apply.

    If women are beaten if they don't wear a burka, there is no real choice. If they have smileys cut into their mouth, there is no real choice. If all the people they know ostracize them, there is no real choice. If they are killed by their brother, father or husband for "honor", there is no real choice, and if this happens to ANY woman, it happens to all because of the level of intimidation involved.

    In situations where oppression is so systematic that the consequences for not doing something can be horrific, OF COURSE people will say it's their "choice". They will say it's their choice because there are negative consequences for even saying it isn't their choice. Duh! Don't people even think about the social dynamics involved before they comment?

    If all a woman knows is that she stands the liklihood of being raped by those outside her family if she doesn't comply, and stands the chance of being ostracized by her family or worse if she doesn't comply, it is both logical and reasonable for her to chose to wear it -- given those parameters. The problem here in addressing the issue of "choice", though, is that the whole system is fvcked up, and THAT'S what people should be addressing since it is neither logical nor reasonable for a woman to mummify herself given a system that is not so fvcked up. .
    Last edited by Gardener; 06-21-09 at 10:59 AM.
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